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Subject: Invasion of the Mind Wreckers (01/03)

    I N V A S I O N   O F   T H E   M I N D   W R E C K E R S

     In the hidden depths of the Nevada Military Complex a battle
is raging.  Few know just how long it has been going on. 
Apparently it began several years ago when the Nevada Test Site
workers discovered vast subterranean cavities deep underground,
possibly as a result of the underground nuclear blasts which had
artificially excavated huge cavities deep below the surface.
     This activity apparently corresponded with the same general
time-period when the U.S. Secret Government was making deals with
the "Grays", establishing secret locations such as S-4 to study
alien craft that had crashed, and constructing environmental
enclosures for some of the 'few' alien beings that had been
apprehended alive.  Much of this activity allegedly took place
and is taking place within the extreme high-security areas on and
below the Nevada Military Complex. 
     However, the reports now coming out of the 'Complex' suggest
that far more of the alien grays, and even their reptilian
overlords, are involved with the activities taking place in
Nevada than even a few alien survivors of crashed disks could
account for.  Many accounts have spoken of vast caverns below the
southern Nevada region which have allegedly been the lairs of
reptilian hominoids for centuries.  All the accounts point to
only one possible conclusion: That the Test Site workers broke
into the native habitat of these reptilian beings, or a system of
caverns which the reptilians had taken control of in the past,
and as a result of the coincidental "treaties" which the
governments were making with the saurian Grays (which they
suspected originated from other-stellar regions), a secret treaty
was made with this underground race as well, whether out of
necessity or desire.  Most of the "workers" would not be aware of
the alien activity taking place in these extremely lower levels
due to the higher security clearances necessary to enter or even
know of them.  This could explain the confusion which seems to
exist there, and the comments made by workers there that
'everything is way out of control'.  It might also explain the
comments made by others 'in the know' who have suggested that the
government is in a panic since they have learned that the sauroid
"aliens from other stars" have infiltrated and undermined the
surface of the earth without us even knowing it, and that this is
why they are in such confusion, why they are rushing head-long to
develop weapons such as 'Excalibur' to destroy subterranean alien
strongholds, and so on.  In the movie 'THEY LIVE', which depicted
an infiltration of human society utilizing underground 'bases'
beneath major cities, one of the "human resistance" members asks:
"How long have they been here?"  Later he comes to realize...
"Maybe they've always been here!"  Perhaps the reason behind
the supposed alien infestation and undermining of the cavernous
depths of the earth could be explained by the possibility that
they have ALWAYS been here, or have been for some time.  Do not
accounts of reptilian hominoids date back to prehistoric times
when the dinosaurs walked the surface of the earth?  Keep this
possibility in mind when trying to fit the following accounts
into your framework of reality.  Is it possible that a
subterranean race, working closely with others of their kind
which long ago left the earth for extraterrestrial realms, is
staging (via subversion, implantation, disinformation, coversion,
implantation and infiltration) a takeover of human society FROM

     The following is a transcript of an interview which took
place between a Radio host by the name of Chuck Harder and George
Knapp, a journalist for KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada.  The
transcript of the interview appeared in 'FOR THE PEOPLE'
Magazine, and because of it's obviously remarkable nature,
including the large number of well-known people involved, we will
record the majority of the interview here:

     CHUCK HARDER: "...My guest has (now) called in and I'm going
to run down who he is and where he's from for a number of
reasons, some of them for his own protection.  George, are you
     GEORGE KNAPP: "Hello Chuck"
     CH: "Please tell us, you are George Knapp, right..."
     GK: "That's right"
     CH: "George, what do you do for a living?"
     GK: "I'm a journalist with KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, the CBS
affiliate here."
     CH: "So you are a TV newsman..."
     GK: "Right"
     CH: And you work for Channel 18, KLAS-TV in Las Vegas,
     GK: "Right"
     CH: "I understand that you have come upon some very
interesting information and you've done some special reports,
could you tell us about it...?"
     GK: "Well we just finished a nine-part series - what may be
the longest series that's ever been done on this subject dealing
with UFO's.
     "Our research actually started about two and a half years
ago, a fellow named John Lear, the son of the guy who invented
the Lear Jet brought some of this information to our attention. 
In May of this year, Mr. Lear introduced us to a fellow who
claims to have worked at a secret base designated S-4...on a top-
secret Nevada test site... the fellow said that he worked on
'flying saucers', that the technology was not from Earth, and we
interviewed him live in silhouette in May, the response was
incredible...we got response from Japan, parts of that interview
aired on radio in Europe, and six different European countries...
so we decided with this much interest we might want to take a
look at the subject more in depth.
     "We started doing that and the first thing we found out is
that really UFO's have not been given a fair shake by science, by
government, by religion and especially by journalism.  Millions
of people have seen UFO's, millions more believe (in them)... I
think the latest Gallup poll shows about 70 percent of college-
educated Americans believe that there's something to it, but
because of the tabloid aspects... 'The Girl Who Gives Birth to 52
UFO Babies' - kind of things in the NATIONAL ENQUIRER, people
have shied away from it... Serious people have shied away. 
Scientists, although they might be interested in searching the
universe for radio signals really don't want to look in their own
back years - they can't get grants...people would laugh at them. 
Journalism - the coverage is generally condescending and quirky,
especially by the networks, as in the coverage of the UFO that
supposedly landed in the USSR, people making fun of it... so, we
figured out that millions of people want to know as Roy Neary the
guy in the, 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS' movie said, 'What's going on?'  So
we started investigating it.  The focal point of the story being
this fellow who said he worked at Los Alamos National Labs and
they said they never heard of him.  We called MIT where he says
he went to school and they never heard of him.  We called for his
birth records and they had disappeared... as if someone was
trying to make him a non-person.  We did however confirm some of
the information that he had given us... we found newspaper
articles from Los Alamos indicating that he had indeed worked
there...we found an old telephone book from the lab with his name
in it, which gave him a certain amount of credibility in our
eyes.  The story he tells is an incredible one.  He was hired to
work at this area called S-4 on the test site, he was flown up to
a place called Groom Lake - taken by bus with no windows to S-
4... the base is built almost to look like it's part of the
desert with sand covering hanger doors, he goes inside and he
starts reading these briefing papers dealing with UFO's! 
Pictures of UFO's on the walls, pictures of aliens, autopsy
reports on alien bodies...things of this nature - he's pretty
amazed.  Then he sees the disks.  He says there are nine of the
disks up there, they are powered by an anti-matter reactor which
produces it's own gravitational that does not
exist on this planet, and the interesting thing...he thought for
a while that perhaps it was just an advanced secret scientific
project that our government is pursuing until he looked inside
one of the disks and noticed the small furniture...all the chairs
were built like (they were made) for children.  And then things
started coming together for him.  Are you with me Chuck?" 
     CH: "I'm listening..."
     GK: "Er, I'm not sure how much detail you want me to go in
     CH: "Oh, I think you ought to keep going..."
     GK: "Well this fellow was up there only a few months.  And
it was a rough place to work... the security was so hard and he
was being harassed at home, his phone being tapped... plus he's
on to what he thinks are the secrets of the universe...he starts
to tell other people about it, confide with close friends."
     CH: "Ummmm."
     GK: "He had the date of a couple of tests and on two
consecutive weekends he took people up to the desert outside of
the boundaries of area S-4, and they videotaped the
saucers...what looks like a saucer coming over the mountains!"
     CH: "Wow"
     GK: "We showed the video as well..."
     CH: "Um huhmm..."
     GK: "Five different people that we interviewed that had gone
up there confirmed the same story...we also had confirmation of
other bits of his story from other people, a former security
guard who worked up there... who said he had seen the saucers; a
former technician..."
     CH: "By the way, excuse me, I have some letters from some
people postmarked from that area, one inside a base, who tells me
what your saying is true.  Keep going."
     GK: "Ah, we also found a Nellis Airman who had been on radar
duty at Nellis air base which is just south of the area that this
fellow is talking about...he reported numerous times seeing..."
     CH: "George, excuse me...let me do the half hour news break.
I want you to tell your story, I want America to hear it...Please
stand by."
     (At this point SUN RADIO NETWORK runs the half hour news
headlines and sports audio package from UPI.  After the news the
guest is re-introduced for listeners who may have just tuned
     CH: "How many reports did you do, George?"
     GK: "We did nine total in this series."
     CH: "OK, now at the time we went to the news on the half
hour you told me that a scientist named Bob Lazar..."
     GK: "Right"
     CH: "OK, (he) came to tell you and came to the public and
apparently was concerned for his safety because he wanted to tell
America or get the news out that - yes, the Federal Government
has nine saucers, and yes they are's near Nellis, is it
     GK: "Yes."
     CH: "Cause I have letters from people who are at Nellis. 
Some of which don't want to give their names, I have the
postmarks.  Tell us now if you would, start the story from the
fact that the gentleman has revealed that there are nine of these
things.  We're listening and so is America."
     GK: "Well we wanted to try to confirm as much of his story
as possible for other sources of course, so we started looking
for other people who might have knowledge of what's going on up I mentioned, I found a former security guard who said
that he had seen the saucers up there, I found a Nellis airman
who had worked in radar and said that basically he and his fellow
airman has seen these things flying over the Groom Mountains at
speeds up to 7,000 miles per hour on radar...these things would
stop on a dime, so the guy knew that this is not your average
airplane that's doing this.  We also interviewed the other people
who went with Lazar up on two consecutive weeks, they test them
on Wednesdays for some reason, and videotaped the tests, saw
these things flying over the mountains and confirmed his story as
well.  We put these questions to the Navy, who Lazar says he
worked for up there - we made FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT requests
as well - so I don't put a lot of faith in the FOI requests."
     CH: "In other words what you're saying is that your
organization which is KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, plus many other UFO
research groups have uncovered many UFO documents that the
government says, 'Yeah we got them and yeah it's true'...but then
when you ask them again they say, 'No we don't have them'".
     GK: "Exactly...that's exactly correct!"
     CH: "I understand from MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) and many
other groups that there are somewhere from four to seven thousand
documents that prove that...yes these things exist, copies of the
documents are in private hands, then you go and ask the
government and they say, 'Well, er, no we don't remember...'"
     GK: "The government says that they have done these studies
that say that UFO's are no threat to national security, they're
either psychological aberrations, which means that people are
nuts when they see them, that's what they feed the public...but
behind the scenes they are very concerned about the national
security implications of UFO's that land at nuclear missile bases
and can't be caught, things of that nature.  So the government
from what I've read is very concerned about the phenomena and
doesn't understand it.  The government on the other hand has
outright lied concerning what information it does have...the CIA
for example says it doesn't collect any information on
UFO's...well that's just patently not true.  We have documents
from the CIA, a lot of it is blacked out, which mentions UFO
studies by the CIA, UFO research, CIA-UFO experts, agency
personnel who are monitoring the phenomenon, so they have lied to
us all along.  I didn't expect to get any confirmation regarding
what Lazar has to say, but had to give it a try anyway."
     CH: "Before we went to the half-hour break you said that
when he looked inside one of these discs there were little
furniture, give me some information..."
     GK: "Well he feels that they were bringing him along, giving
him a piece at a time.  He would see a saucer one day, the next
he would see the hanger doors open and see all nine of
them...after that he got to see the inside of the thing.  He also
got to see a demonstration of it.  He was told to stand back and
watch this...and the thing lights up real bright...I guess the
power that's produced is incredible, you need to produce your own
gravitational field, and it raised up, did a couple maneuvers and
sat back down.  Part of the reason he came forward, not to spill
the secrets of the universe or the government, but because the
research that's being done up there is being handled in a clumsy
fashion.  If they have had these for as long of forty years,
which is what he believes, they haven't come too far in trying to
understand them.  Some of the disks he said he saw up there were
being taken apart, kind of a reverse archeology process to figure
out how they worked.  Some of the research going on up there is
aimed at trying to duplicate the things that these machines can
do using earth technologies and earth materials and he says it
just can't be done.  The key to the flying of these things is
something he calls 'Element 115' (elsewhere Lazar stated that
this is an extremely 'heavy' element - Branton) does not
exist on our periodic charts, he believes that wherever it came
from it's a naturally occurring element, he says we have 500
pounds of the stuff up there, just a little tiny sliver of it
produces incredible amounts of power.  It's the '115' that we
will not be able to duplicate so he of the reasons
he came forward is because scientists all over the world are
working, putting their energy into trying to master the secrets
of gravity and the secrets of anti-matter technology and here
we've got it up there and they're not doing a very good job with
it - this little batch of scientists hidden in the desert are
trying to figure it out and not doing a very good job..."
     CH: "But this is kind of common with the United States...I
read five newspapers a day and I'll find where one group in one
part of the country is working on a project and I'll get a
clipping where another group is working on the same project, I've
contacted them and they don't know each other!"
     GK: "Yeah, yeah - that's exactly right...he said
compartmentalization up there was very severe as well so that
nobody had the full picture - I guess so nobody could spill the
beans as he has been trying to do."
     CH: "All right, what does he feel the public should know and
what does he feel should be done?"
     GK: "Well, he's not on a campaign, what he really wanted to
do was to save his own life.  He started having some problems
when it became obvious to his employers that he was telling
someone else about this."
     CH: "We're talking about Bob Lazar now..."
     GK: "Bob Lazar...his phone being tapped, people visiting
him, calling him up with a single word message - DEAD - then they
hang up!  He tried to arrange meetings with his former supervisor
and the meetings didn't come off, he says somebody took a shot at
him on the freeway...obviously he realizes that if they really
wanted to kill him, they could.  Maybe perhaps they were just
trying to shut him up.  He feels that what is going on up there
is a crime against the entire scientific community...not only the
American people because we don't know what's going on and we
haven't been told alien technology exists, but also against the
scientific community.  So, what else can I tell ya?"
     CH: "What does he say about the aliens?"
     GK: "He's reluctant to talk about that, apparently he did
see some aliens up there..."
     CH: "Excuse me, are you telling me there were live aliens?"
     GK: "Yeah, he's kind of sketchy on the details of that, and
I don't think I should go much further on that...part of the
discussion until I can talk to him, but he has indications that
there are aliens up there, at least one..."
     CH: "Live?"
     GK: "Yeah, it's pretty wild, I know and I didn't include
that in our reports because I couldn't confirm anything of that
nature, I couldn't find anyone else who had seen them up there
     CH: "What did they look like?"
     GK: "Your classic Grey...the little big-headed almond-eyed
grey-skinned being...the same ones in the classic descriptions of
the UFO literature...he's kind of squeamish talking about it as
well because it sounds so crazy..."
     CH: "I don't think it's crazy at all, there was an article
yesterday on the front page of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL where the
FDA... stopped all the grapes from Chile last March... apparently
somebody laced two of the grapes with cyanide a couple hours
before the FDA stumbled on them and it was in inside job
apparently while the grapes were in the inspection station...and
it was not done on the way, so somebody's lying there - we're
talking of two little grapes that almost bankrupted the country
of Chile!  If two little grapes... and such a story hits the
front page of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL about the truthfulness and
what happened with the FDA, what about would this ever
get out if they would cover up a story about TWO LITTLE GRAPES!"
     GK: "Well, I tell you we ask the question, the obvious
question, if this is true how can the government keep this a
secret all this time?  A story this big - the government leaks
like a sieve on other things, how could the cover-up exist?"
     CH: "Oh, I'll tell you..."
     GK: "To which Lazar responds, this is the easiest...and he
asked the question to his superiors up there, it's the easiest
thing in the world to keep a secret because if it does come out,
little bits and pieces, who's going to believe it!"
     CH: "Exactly...let me, you remember the Condon Report, do
you not?"
     GK: "Yes..."
     CH: "For those who are listening, I got into this
investigation because I kept getting letters from our listeners
who said, Chuck you ought to investigate this... we've
investigated many things in the past such as the GM Diesel cover-
up; we're working on a pay-phone cover-up; we've done things with
Ralph Nader...and so on.  So we started buying the books and
contacting UFO organizations.  I then found that there was a guy
named Phil Klass who was always there... somehow he was always
there and he said that everything was BUNK! and of course, he
works for the AVIATION WEEK magazine which is of course... the
mouthpiece for the Military/Industrial complex and they certainly
wouldn't want this technology to be out!  I was also amazed when
I saw the stealth bomber (tests) live on CNN one Saturday and a
small plane landed at the same place, (runway) do you remember
     GK: "Yes..."
     CH: "My question is: If the Stealth Bomber was so super
secret, how could a man and his child land their little tiny
plane on the same runway at a super secret airforce base?  How
could he have pierced the radar and fighter jets and so forth? 
My feeling was, probably the Stealth Bomber was obsolete and
nobody was watching!"
     GK: "Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, because the secrecy
up there...the only thing that comes out of that place is what
they want out of it."
     CH: "So what your talking about then, since the Condon
committee, Phil Klass and all of the spokespeople who are
supposed to know everything, what you are saying is the ridicule
factor... if Billy Bob sees a flying saucer and even has a photo
of it and takes it to the paper, everybody laughs at him!"
     GK: "There are actual documents the government has released
(under the Freedom of Information Act) that shows it is an actual
program that started back in the fifties...the CIA even used the
term DEBUNKING, there were discussions about using Walt Disney to
produce cartoons that made fun of people who had seen flying
saucers...they were going to bring Arthur Godfrey in as their
spokesperson.  Phil Klass as you mentioned, he's explained away
UFO sightings seen by thousands of people as the constellation
ORION, when you can only see ORION from the other side of the
     CH: "Uh huh..."
     GK: "He uses things like Ball Lightning, plasma balls to
explain the sightings where plasma balls only last for a few
seconds and the examples that he is trying to explain occur in
cloudless skies where there is no lightning around.  You mention
the Condon report, that's a perfect example of the kinds of
things that the government has done in the past, they commission
a study, it's supposed to be THE STUDY, but the guy they hire to
run the thing, Edward Condon, had said before he even started,
there was nothing to UFO's, the government should get out of it,
and he also said at one point that the authors of UFO books
should be HORSE-WHIPPED!  One of the explanations that came from
the Condon committee, (an event) witnessed by several people,
they described it as, a natural phenomena so rare that it has
never been seen before or since!  I don't think this kind of
thing is an accident!"
     CH: "OK, the Soviet Union and Tass gave their report (of a
UFO) and from what I have heard there are different kinds of
aliens, some have been coming here for years and years and it's
nothing new..."
     GK: "Right..."
     (Note: At this point they engage in a discussion of the
'Billy Meier' case which took place in Switzerland.  One of the
craft described by Lazar was allegedly very similar to one of the
craft described by Meier.  Lazar said that all nine of the
objects he had seen in the S-4, Groom Lake area were different,
and he nicknamed the object that was similar to the one Meier
photographed the 'sport model'.  After this Chuck Harder tells
George Knapp that there is a break coming up and that after the
break would he please tell Mr. and Mrs. America what they should
do to get the truth).
     CH: "I hope that Mr. and Mrs. America make note of the name
George Knapp and Bob Lazar so that if anything ever happens to
them, you know why."
     GK: "Someone should tell us what's going on...TV and movies
have conditioned us...We won't panic...Jimmy Carter when he ran
for President promised that if he was elected that he vowed to
open all the UFO files and he didn't - we wrote him asking why
and he didn't respond.  We want the government to come clean..."
(At this point the listeners were invited to contact George Knapp
as KLAS-TV., P.O. Box 15047., Las Vegas, Nevada  89144)
     One group that is allegedly tied-in with the inner workings
of the government-alien interaction and/or conflicts are known as
the "Delta" Force.  The Delta's, some allege, are a secret
military group who have been recruited by the government in order
to perform certain functions in relation to the so-called 'joint-
interaction' projects involving deep-level government
organizations and the 'aliens' (Greys).
     At the beginning of the 'interaction', the government was
optimistic about their new-found alliance with an apparently
benevolent race of non-human beings.  When the government finally
discovered the true nature of the 'aliens', also known as the
'greys', that 'they' were using the 'treaties' with the U.S.
government merely as a means to further their infernal plans to
bring the human race under their control, then according to
various sources 'all hell broke loose!'  The government-CIA in
their zeal to establish contact with what they hoped were
technological 'saviors' from the stars, had 'bargained away' much
of what they had.  When the 'Horrible Truth' was discovered it
was too late, the aliens already had too much control and their
physical and occult conquest was increasing every day.  And the
Delta's were caught right in the middle.
     The Delta Groups (or National Recon Group), wear the
'Trilateral' insignia, a black triangle on a red background. 
'Delta' is also the fourth letter in the Greek alphabet, which
has the form of a triangle.  The symbol appears prominently in
certain Masonic lodges, and is said to have had it's origin with
the aliens (or serpent race).
     The Delta Forces were the major group which, according to
some sources, were involved in the attempted operation which was
implemented to rescue several scientists who were being held
captive within the deepest levels of the 'Dulce' complex below
northwestern New Mexico.  These workers had stumbled across the
'Horrible Truth', and according to some sources over 66 persons,
many of them Delta Forces, were slaughtered by the inhuman
inhabitants and controllers of those lower levels.  Some allege
that Air Force Blue Berets were also involved in this conflict,
which was later to become known as the 'Dulce Wars'.  Exactly
what part the Blue Berets played, however, is uncertain.
     With this in mind, the reader might better understand the
following revelations which were released by former Naval Petty
Officer and Intelligence worker, William Cooper.  On January 10,
1989, Mr. Cooper sent the following statement to various
different researchers:

     "The following information was extracted from a rather long
treatise/transcript/conversation between an individual and
another who was assigned to DELTA SECURITY:
     "01: Delta security has a lot to do with inter-service
     "02: The Trilateral insignia (alien) is valid and has been
used to mark equipment.
     "03: 'The whole thing is grim and won't get any better.'
     "04: The Trilateral insignia has been seen on a disk at
Edwards AFB, CA and Area 51 in NV.
     "05: There is a hanger at Edwards referred to as the Delta
     "06: The Delta Hanger is on the North Base at Edwards.
     "07: You need a special badge to get near it.  It is a red
badge with a black triangle on the face of it and personal
information on the back.
     "08: Disk in hanger at Edwards described as having insignia
on the underside and on the top.  It was about 50' in diameter,
appearing like tarnished silver, about 15 to 18 feet thick. 
There were what looked like windows around the raised portion
that were mostly described as rectangular.  There was a groove
around the disk about 4 feet from the edge all the way around. 
There was an area on the bottom that looked like vents or
     "09: When people assigned to Delta would break down and cry
for no apparent reason, you would never see them again.
     "10: Apparently, the NRO (National Recon Organization)
recruits for DELTA out of Fort Carson, Colorado.
     "11: Just about everyone assigned to DELTA are orphans, have
no relatives, etc.
     "12: There are 'bounty hunters' connected with Dreamland.
     "13: If you work at Dreamland and go on leave or are not
back on time they send 'bounty hunters' after you.  That's where
the 'visitors' live...there is an underground facility...
     "14: Area 51 is at Groom Lake in Nevada.  The disks are
flown there.
     "15: One of the craft looked like an upside-down diamond.
     "16: There is a radiation hazard apparent when some of the
craft fly.
     "17: No one stays at Dreamland for more than a few months.
     "18: 'Everything is way out of control...'"
      (no longer under 'human' control? - Branton)
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