[Editor's note:  Circa Autumn  1995,  Sherman Skolnick's guest on
his   popular   Chicago   public   access   television   program,
"Broadsides,"  was  independent  film  producer  Cibacuyo   Aguay
Banar(sp?),  a.k.a.   "Ciba."   Ciba  has  been investigating the
attempted assassination in  May  of  1972 of then-Governor George
Wallace.   What  follows  is  an  abbreviated  transcription   of
Skolnick's and Ciba's remarks.]

SKOLNICK: Tell our viewers what you've been working on.

CIBA:  For the past three years I've been involved in a film that
I'm  producing,  dealing  specifically  with  the  conspiracy and
attempted assassination of Governor  George Wallace of Alabama on
May 15th, 1972.

SKOLNICK:  You've travelled thousands of miles.   What  kinds  of
interviews have you done?
   But   first  of  all,  tell  us:   Has  there  been  any  real
documentary  made  of  what   some   feel  was  a  conspiracy  to
assassinate George Wallace?

CIBA:  Not only has no documentary been made; no  book  has  ever
been  written  dealing  with  the  attack on Wallace.  My book is
going to be, hopefully, the first.

SKOLNICK:  Why  have  the  assassination  researchers ignored the
Wallace attempted assassination?

CIBA:  I believe that the answer to that  question  lies  in  the
fact  that  the assassination of President Kennedy was one of the
most seminal acts in the history of mankind, and thus, there is a
concentration on wanting to  solve  the quandry, the mystery, the
enigma, tied into that particular assassination.

SKOLNICK:  What kind of interviews have you done  in  pursuit  of
this  documentary,  which  you're hoping to get on television and
then into a book?

CIBA:   We  interviewed  Governor  Wallace  at  his  residence in

SKOLNICK: You wanted him on videotape, but he was too ill.

CIBA:  Yes. He was too ill to allow us to bring in  our  cameras.
We had to write out a questionaire and submit it to the Governor,
and  then  he went, question by question, answering each one as I
stood at his bedside.  We were, however, allowed the privilege of
being able to photograph him.
   He's  bed-ridden,  and  disease  has  taken  its  toll  on his
voice-box.  He is barely able to make himself  audible,  so  that
most  of  the  questions  (though not all of them) he will answer
"yes" or "no."

SKOLNICK:  At the time Wallace  was  shot  --  so to speak into a
wheelchair and not into  the  cemetery  --  he  was  running  for
President and pulling about 21 percent of the vote.

CIBA: Which comes to 26 million popular votes.

SKOLNICK:   But because of the different states that it was into,
he could have  had  the  whole  thing  thrown  into  the House of
Representatives, where it would have been a turmoil.
   Recently we did a show with spokespersons for some third-party
candidates, including those for Perot.  And  I  raised  the  same
question.   (Perot had 19 percent in the '92 election.)  And when
I raised this  question,  they  said,  "Oh,  so  if  Perot had 21
percent, like Wallace, they'd have to shoot him?"  I said, "In my
opinion, yes."  Why is that?  I mean, some of us believe that the
ultra-rich believe in the bullet, not the ballot.   Is  that  the
bottom line?

CIBA:   The  bottom  line is money, the almighty dollar:  who can
best serve the interests  of  the Northeastern Atlantic elite and
the Southwestern Pacific elite.

SKOLNICK:  Just  prior  to  Wallace  being  shot,  he  had made a
statement.  He said, "There's not a  dimes  worth  of  difference
between   the  Democrat  and  Republican  Parties."   (He  was  a
third-party candidate, very populist.)  He said, "If I'm elected,
one of the first things  I'm  going  to do is tax the Rockefeller
Foundation."  When I heard that, I said,  "Wallace,  you  haven't
got  enough  life insurance."  So you weren't able to get Wallace
on video, but you still got pictures.


CIBA:  One of the questions that  I asked the Governor in writing
was, "Was there a conspiracy behind the shooting of your person?"
He said, "*Yes*.  Definitely a conspiracy."  And then  he  looked
up,  on  the  page,  to  where a previous question had been asked
regarding Richard Nixon.   And  with  the  stub  of  his cigar he
*poked* at the name of  Richard  Nixon.   He  said,  "Conspiracy!
Conspiracy!" And he *jabbed* at the name of Nixon on the page.

SKOLNICK:   What  else  leads  you  to  believe  that there was a

CIBA:  There was no way that  Richard  Nixon was ever going to be
re-elected with Wallace in the campaign.  To get  back  into  the
Oval  Office,  you  had  to  do away with Wallace so that most of
those 26 million votes --  which  were center, or right of center
-- would come over to the side of Nixon.

SKOLNICK:  What do you make of the fact that 6 weeks  after  they
took  Wallace  out  of  the  campaign  by almost killing him, the
Watergate break-in occurred?

CIBA:   The  Watergate   break-in   was   nothing   more  than  a
contrivance:  a poorly executed mission that  had,  at  its  very
bottom,  a  very  sharp  hatchet.   And  the hatchet was aimed at
Nixon's head.  The Watergate  break-in  was designed to be found,
and to point the blame at Nixon and bring him down.

SKOLNICK:  E.  Howard  Hunt,  Frank  Sturgis,  and  others,  were
involved in the break-in at the Watergate.  And there's reason to
believe  that  the  White  House  sent  E.  Howard Hunt to Arthur
Bremer's [Bremer found guilty  of  shooting Wallace] apartment in

CIBA: ...on orders from Charles Colson.

SKOLNICK:  Bremer's apartment, after the shooting of Wallace, was
not sealed off; stuff could have been planted there, such as fake
diaries. In other words, Arthur Bremer's diary showed up.

CIBA: Yes, but the diary showed up in the car.
   But when Bremer shot  Wallace,  the  first  people  that  went
physically into the apartment were from a bogus news organization
known as "TIPS" -- Transcontinental International Press Services.
Now  *they*  are  a  creature  of  the  Guardians,  which are the
militant wing of  the  Church  of  Scientology.   And I'm talking
about the branch in Los Angeles.

SKOLNICK:  The Secret Service allowed Bremer to penetrate Nixon's
security.  In other  words,  if  you  create  a  vacuum  where  a
would-be  assassin can penetrate Secret Service security, then it
becomes easy to  kill  somebody.   Like  they  did with Dr. King:
withdraw the security.

CIBA:  Bremer was in the city of Ottawa, Capital of Canada,  when
Nixon was visiting Pierre Trudeau, the Canadian Prime Minister at
the  time.   Bremer  and  Frank  Sturgis stayed at the Lord Elgin
Hotel, in Ottawa.  They stayed in  the same section of the Hotel.
Frank Sturgis was the control officer of  Arthur  Bremer  on  the
road.   It  was  he  who  was passing on money and information to
   Sturgis and Bremer  stayed  in  the  same  section of the Lord
Elgin Hotel that the Secret Service detail of Richard  Nixon  was
staying in.

SKOLNICK:   Could  Bremer,  at one point, have targeted Nixon for

CIBA:  You will recall that the same mythology was created in the
assassination of John Kennedy:   that  Oswald was after Nixon and
then, because security was  so  tight,  he  instead  trained  the
crosshairs  of  his weapon on Jack Kennedy.  The same thing here:
they want you to believe that  Bremer was after Nixon and because
security was so tight, again, the "lone assassin" trained his gun
on someone else -- Wallace.
   It was all part of a false  trail.  You know, you always lay a
trail of "golden apples."

SKOLNICK: So how long have you been on this case?

CIBA:  On this particular case, I've been on it for close to four
years.   But  I've been involved in assassination research for 27
   I was able to interview,  on  this particular junket, not only
Governor Wallace; I  was  able  to  interview  John  Ehrlichmann,
Colonel Fletcher Prouty...  I also spoke to John Judge, president
of the Coalition On Political Assassinations.

SKOLNICK:   Continue  telling  us, Ciba:  Why do you believe that
there was a plot?

CIBA:  In  Milwaukee,  Arthur  Bremer's  control  officer was not
Frank Sturgis.  It was a man by  the  name  of  Dennis  Salvatore
Cosini  Guzman(sp?).   Dennis  Guzman was a journalism student at
Marquette  University,  in   Milwaukee.    While  Bremer  was  in
Milwaukee, he attended a series of  meetings  of  the  SDS:   the
Students for a Democratic Society.

SKOLNICK:  There were *agents provocateurs* in the Students for a
Democratic Society.

CIBA: And Cosini was one of them.
   I'll tell you who else was involved: Donald Segretti.

SKOLNICK: Really!?

CIBA:   He was seen in Milwaukee in the presence of Arthur Bremer
and  J.  Timothy  Gratt(sp?),  who  was  the  head  of  the Young


SKOLNICK:  You're saying that known figures were involved in  the
attempted   assassination   of  George  Wallace  during  the  '72
Presidential campaign.   You  mentioned  Frank  Sturgis.  Are you
ready to contend that E. Howard Hunt, who was involved that  same
year in the Watergate break-in, that he was in some way involved?
He went to Bremer's apartment, after the Wallace shooting.

CIBA:   He  denies  it.   But  not only do I think he went to the
apartment in Milwaukee, I  think  that  it  is E. Howard Hunt who
planted "Bremer's  diary"  inside  of  Bremer's  parked  car,  in
Maryland. That's what I *think*.

SKOLNICK:   All  right:   you've  got  Sturgis.  You've got Hunt.
You've got Segretti... Now Segretti was?

CIBA:  He was  chieftain  of  the  "dirty  tricks" department for
Richard Nixon, at the street level.

SKOLNICK: In other words, to break up peace parades...

CIBA:  ...the planting of Nazi memorabilia on Wallace's cars, and
things of that nature.

SKOLNICK: To target Wallace?

CIBA:  Oh yes.  As a Nazi.  In  order  to  dissuade  people  from
voting for him.


SKOLNICK:   I  followed  some  of the Wallace campaign in '68 and
'72.  Wallace wanted to tax the Rockefeller Foundation; he wanted
to tax the very  rich.   He  said  things that appealed to common
people, of all kinds of parties.
   One of the things which I've been told by  retired  government
intelligence  officials  that  I've known over the years is, that
when a person makes statements  that give the impression that the
era of the common man has  arrived,  if  it  gains  momentum,  it
causes  the  ultra  rich  to  say, "That guy...  Forget about the
ballot. The bullet!"

CIBA:  The era  of  the  common  man  has  long been overdue.  So
whenever you get anyone who takes that stand...

SKOLNICK: Like Abraham Lincoln. [Like Martin Luther King.]

CIBA: Yes. Because the truth has always made authority tremble.

SKOLNICK:  Did Wallace fit that mold?  Did he start a  psychology
that the era of the common man had arrived?

CIBA:   Yes.  Without  a  doubt.   His  whole campaign was geared
toward the blue-collar.
   Bear in mind that many, many was the time that the Governor of
Alabama said, "They are  having  meetings  about me in them there
banks up in the Northeast."
   It is known that the Rockefellers were very worried about  the
candidacy   of   Governor   Wallace  because  it  threatened  the
re-election of their man, Richard Nixon.

SKOLNICK:  What are some of the "nuts and bolts" that lead you to
believe there was a conspiracy against Wallace?

CIBA:  It has  been,  for  over  two  decades,  believed that the
Milwaukee CIA control officer of Arthur Bremer, Dennis  Salvatore
Cosini  Guzman,  died  on July the 6th, 1972, in Toronto, Canada.
He was supposed to have been given a "hot shot" of heroin.
   Dennis Salvatore Cosini Guzman is *not dead*.  He is alive.  I
know this for a  fact.   I  know  where  he's living.  I know the
alias that he's using.  I know the industry  that  he  works  in.
And  if  there was, in fact, a body found at the Toronto airport,
it was *not* Dennis Guzman.

SKOLNICK: Is Bremer in jail for the rest of his life?

CIBA: Yes. He got 67 years. He will never get out alive.

SKOLNICK: He doesn't say anything in the jail?

CIBA:  He refuses to speak  to  anyone about anything.  They keep
him segregated.
   He's another  mystery.   When  he  was  arrested,  the  people
standing  next  to the shooter couldn't identify Arthur Bremer as
being the shooter.  Arthur  Bremer's  fingerprints are not on the
weapon.  The weapon could not be matched  to  the  bullets  taken
from the Governor.

SKOLNICK: Was there a government investigation?

   They  gave  Arthur  Bremer  a  parrafin  test.   They found no
gunpowder residue on his hands.

SKOLNICK:  One indication of a covert operative is that he's very
active in things, with  no  visible  income.  He lives well.  Was
that true of Bremer?


CIBA:  Yes, and he travels well.  We know that part of the  money
was being garnered from Robert Vesco's organization in Toronto...

SKOLNICK: Vesco!? He's involved in it too?

CIBA:   In  the trafficking of narcotics into Canada.  Here's how
the Vesco money was  being  utilized,  in  part.  Money was being
sent from Toronto  by  Vesco's  organization  into  the  Maryland
political  organization,  the  Republican  organization.  Part of
that money was taken out.  The  rest  was sent over to the office
of Congressman William O. Mills.  Congressman  Mills  would  take
his  cut,  and  pass  the  rest on to Vice President Spiro Agnew.
(Remember that Maryland was  Agnew's  fiefdom.   He ran it like a
camp.)  Agnew would take his cut and pass the rest on to  Richard
Nixon.  Richard Nixon would then take part of that money that was
left  and  put  a  smile  on  the pocket of Attorney General John
Mitchell.  And it was John  Mitchell who was directly responsible
for keeping Robert Vesco out of the hands of U.S. authorities.

SKOLNICK:  They're trying lately  to  bring  Vesco  back  to  the
United States.

CIBA:   They're  not going to bring him back to the United States
because the people that  are  in power behind-the-scenes do *not*
want Robert Vesco on U.S. soil.  There's too many bones,  and  he
knows where the bones are buried.

SKOLNICK:   They'd  have  to  dig  up  Nixon's  skeleton from the
cemetery and hang him from a rope.

CIBA:  Nixon, after sharing  the  money  with John Mitchell, took
the remainder and passed it on to Bebe Rebozo, his Cuban lifelong
friend in Miami.  Bebe had a bank.  And  it  was  through  Bebe's
bank  that  the  money  was  funneled out into the Bahamas.  Upon
reaching the Bahamas, the money  was  put  into a bank, taken out
immediately, and shifted over into Switzerland into a  bank  that
was -- no surprise -- run by Robert Vesco.
   Part  of  that money that Robert Vesco shipped down south into
Maryland, to Nixon...  $25,000 was taken  out of that, out of the
coffers of Congressman Mills, and sent north into Milwaukee.   It
was placed into the hands of Milwaukee multi-millionaire attorney
Herbert  A.  Spenner(sp?).   Spenner  was  the head of the German
*bund* in Milwaukee in 1972.   And  he  was seen drinking beer on
many an occasion with Arthur Bremer.

SKOLNICK:  Are you saying that Nixon was part of it all?  Or that
there was an apparatus that helped Nixon, whether Nixon  knew  or

CIBA:   Nixon  was  part  of  it.   Nixon  knew.  And Nixon was a
witting conspirator.

SKOLNICK:   Do  you  think  Wallace   knows  the  nature  of  the
conspiracy that almost killed him?


CIBA: Sure. He knows.
   And let me just say before  we're  through:   it  wasn't  just
Wallace  who  knew.  You couldn't just move upon Wallace while J.
Edgar Hoover was alive.  Because  J. Edgar Hoover was threatening
the Nixon White House.

SKOLNICK:  Whoa....  Wait a minute.  You bring up an  interesting
point. Hoover died very mysteriously.

CIBA:   He  died  May the 1st, 1972, two weeks before Wallace was
moved upon.

SKOLNICK:  A story about  Hoover's  death appeared in the Harvard
University Crimson.  Two people who claimed  they  were  tied  in
with Frank Sturgis claimed that they were the ones who put exotic
poison into Hoover's dental items or toiletries?

CIBA:  What they did was the following:  Hoover had to be removed
before  they  moved  upon Wallace, because Hoover was an enemy of
those that had encircled Richard  Nixon  -- what was known as the
German Mafia.  Hoover hated them with a purple passion, he wanted
them removed, and he had told Nixon that he must get rid of them.

SKOLNICK:  On May 1st, J. Edgar  Hoover  was  probably  murdered.
There  was  no  autopsy.   The  laws provided for an autopsy, but
there wasn't any.  And they  took  him away to the mortuary.  And
then two people showed up who supposedly poisoned Hoover.
   May 1st:  Hoover probably murdered.  Attempted murder  in  the
middle  of May against George Wallace.  Then, several weeks after
that, the Watergate break-in.

CIBA:  Nixon  spoke  to  Hoover  and  told  him,  "I  want you to
resign."  Hoover told the President, "I am not going to  resign."
So then, the "Plumbers" went into Hoover's house, and they doused
his  toiletries  with a genre of Thio-phosphates(sp?).  This is a
poison that is based on  limestone and brimstone and sulphur that
eats up the oxygen in your circulatory system.

SKOLNICK:  We have a few minutes left, Ciba.  Tell us:   What  do
you want the public to understand?

CIBA:   History,  despite  its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived.
But if we rise up to  meet  it  head-on, then history need not be
*re-lived*.  When we as a people fail, or worse  yet,  refuse  to
stand  up  to  the  injustice  of  our historical past, then that
injustice becomes an ever-present constant in our daily lives.

SKOLNICK:  Is  political  assassination  part  of  the  fabric of

CIBA:  It is part of the tapestry, and it is a very  vital  weave

SKOLNICK:   In  other  words,  when  they say, "Oh, that was long

CIBA: You're still living it now!!

 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +

For related stories, visit: