[Editor's note:  Fred Celeni  (pronounced suh-LAN-ee) worked as a
federal intelligence agent, he  says,  for  the  office  of  U.S.
Congressman  John  D. Dingell.  Celeni was interviewed for public
access television in Los  Angeles,  and  that interview was later
re-broadcast   on   Sherman   Skolnick's   television    program,
"Broadsides,"  in  Chicago.   Following  is  my  own  abbreviated
transcript  of Celeni's remarks.  (Possible spelling errors exist
and are not noted.)]


INTERVIEWER [continues]:  We  have another interesting situation.
In August of 1994, you got  a  call  from  your  old  friend  and
cohort, Nathan Arnold, Jr. What did he tell you?

FRED CELENI:  He said that he needed some advice.  I said, "Why?"
He  said  that a couple of months ago they had been involved in a
situation where Mark Fuhrman had gone  off.  I said, "What do you
mean?"  He said, "The same thing as McCullough."  And  I  started
laughing.   And I said, "I hope you didn't leave your fingerprint
on the door knob again."  (Because during this McCullough murder,
they left their fingerprint on  the  latch that shuts the lock on
the front door.)

INTERVIEWER: Tell us some details about that McCullough murder.

FRED CELENI:  The McCullough murder was an intelligence operation
for narcotics.  These guys  were  involved:   Mark  Fuhrman,  Tom
Lange,   and   Nathan   Arnold,  Jr.  During  the  course  of  an
interrogation of an old  woman  in  Santa  Monica,  it got out of
control.  And this old woman had her head cut off, with a  knife.
And  this knife was a very large Bowie knife.  And Mr. Arnold was
well-known for carrying this Bowie knife.
   If you look at the murder book  (a murder book is a file, with
all the pictures and information of a homicide) of the McCullough
murder, and take a look at the murder book of Nicole Simpson, you
can switch the photographs and it will be the same murder.

INTERVIEWER:  Did Arnold ever admit to you  that  he  had  killed
Nicole Simpson?

FRED CELENI: Yes, he did.

INTERVIEWER: What else did he tell you?

FRED  CELENI:   He  indicated  that  they  were  following  up on
information for a woman named Faye Resnick.  And Faye Resnick had
been arrested in Las Vegas about a year before, by the Metro Task
Force there  along  with  the  DEA.   Possession  of  cocaine and
possession of hashish.

INTERVIEWER: Was Faye Resnick a renowned sniffer?

FRED CELENI:  Faye Resnick  is  a  renowned  freak.   She  sniffs
cocaine;  she  sniffs  dirty  underwear.   She  sleeps with boys,
girls, dogs, farm animals.  Faye  Resnick is a very strange piece
of work. And that's a well-known fact.

            -+- Video of the Ron & Nicole Murder -+-

   And that evening, they had gone over to the house; there  were
four  people:   Tom  Lange, Mark Fuhrman, Nathan Arnold, Jr., and
another man, in a truck.
   Now  the  truck  that  they  used  was  a  Bronco  truck.  The
difference is that it didn't have a tire pit on  the  back.   But
what happened was, in the course of the investigation, Nicole got
out  of  hand.   Her  dress  was  pulled  down (she was wearing a
slip/nightie kind of dress), and  some  words got said.  She said
to Nathan Arnold, "You niggers like to see white  women's  tits."
He  slapped  her.   She  fell back, onto a couch.  And just as he
went for her, they got a call on the radio that said that someone
was coming in the front gate.  And Mr. Lange was waiting outside.
Mr. Fuhrman and Nathan Arnold were inside.
   They then proceeded out of the  house.  At this point, as they
come out the front door,  the  truck  has  a  dash-mounted  video
camera.   And  you  can see on the tape (it's in black-and-white;
there's no  sound),  you  see  her  start  down  the steps.  He's
standing behind her, holding his arm around her.

INTERVIEWER: Nathan Arnold's holding Nicole?

   And they go down the steps and disappear behind a  bush  or  a

INTERVIEWER: You've =seen= the video?

FRED CELENI: I've seen it on one occasion.
   What  happened  was, you see a scuffle.  You can see a bald(?)
individual because the  light  from  the  windows  is hitting his
head.  And he's fighting with somebody.  You can't tell who  that
somebody is...

INTERVIEWER: You've got to presume it's Ron Goldman.

FRED CELENI: You have to presume that.
   And  this  individual goes down.  You then see Mr. Arnold come
back and take her by the hair, and pull her and slice her.

INTERVIEWER: Is Goldman killed first?

FRED CELENI: Mr. Goldman died first.

INTERVIEWER: Who killed him?

FRED CELENI:  Well the estimation, if you watch the tape, is that
it was Tom Lange and Nathan Arnold.  My guess is that it would be
Nathan Arnold, and the reason I  say that is because of the knife

INTERVIEWER:  How can Nathan Arnold be holding Nicole and cutting
Ron's head off at the same time?

FRED CELENI:  What happened was, as they came down the stairs, he
put her into Fuhrman's arms.  And Fuhrman locked his arms  around
   You've  got  to see Nathan Arnold.  Nathan Arnold (and I don't
mean this in a racial way) is a gorilla.  He is 6 foot 6.  He has
shoulders out to here, arms that are  as big as your legs.  He is
a =big= son-of-a-gun.   And  if  he  hits  you,  one  swipe  with
=anything=, he's gonna bring you down.
   And  you've got to understand that all this action, the entire
videotape, lasts no more than a minute.

INTERVIEWER:  So when Ron Goldman is killed, what does Nicole do?
Is she screaming?

FRED CELENI: You can't see her; she's behind an obstruction.

INTERVIEWER: Did Nathan tell you that she was screaming?

FRED CELENI:  No, what  he  said  was  that  she was basically in
   And the FBI has that videotape.

INTERVIEWER:  You assume then that Nicole  Simpson  was  murdered
because she witnessed a murder?

FRED CELENI:  I don't think that they ever meant to kill anybody.
I think it was just something that got out of hand.
   If you talk to Nathan, Nathan tells this story.  You've got to
understand cop pride.  Assuming that Mr. Goldman is who's in that
video:   first of all, he got the best of them, it's as simple as
that.  Apparently what happened is,  as  he came through the gate
he had his back to wherever Lange was  standing.   And  as  Lange
came  forward,  according  to  what  I've  been  told  he did not
identify himself as a police  officer.  So Goldman thought it was
a mugging.

                -+- Frame-Up of O.J. Simpson -+-

INTERVIEWER:  Nathan Arnold, in August 1994, two months after the
murder, told you some more  details  about  a  frame-up  of  O.J.

FRED  CELENI:   What  happened  was,  they went to O.J. Simpson's
property.   Now  if  you  listen  to  the  limousine  driver,  he
describes a large,  black  male  coming  over  a fence.  Well the
large, black male is not O.J. Simpson; the large, black  male  is
Nathan  Arnold,  Jr.  That's who came over the fence.  But he was
inside that house.

INTERVIEWER: Nathan has admitted this to you?

   He was  inside  that  house  at  the  time  Simpson came home.
(Simpson was at a fast food restaurant.)  Simpson had nothing  to
do with that murder.

INTERVIEWER:  How did Simpson get in his house, then, without the
limo driver seeing him?

FRED  CELENI:   He came in the other gate.  There's two gates:  a
front gate and a  side  gate.   And  the  limo driver (if you pay
attention to the limo driver's story), he got back  in  the  car.
He wasn't paying attention to everything that went on.

INTERVIEWER:  Did Nathan Arnold explain at all the "thump, thump,
thump" heard by Kato Kaelin?

FRED  CELENI:   No,  we  never really got into that subject.  But
according to [an FBI source], here's  what he says.  He says that
Fuhrman was so out of control that, his hair was sticking out, he
was running around like a madman.  So I'm  gonna  guess  who  the
"thump,  thump,  thump" is.  But you have to know Mark Fuhrman in
order to understand the events of that night.

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