[Editor's note:  Fred Celeni  (pronounced suh-LAN-ee) worked as a
federal intelligence agent, he  says,  for  the  office  of  U.S.
Congressman  John  D. Dingell.  Celeni was interviewed for public
access television in Los  Angeles,  and  that interview was later
re-broadcast   on   Sherman   Skolnick's   television    program,
"Broadsides,"  in  Chicago.   Following  is  my  own  abbreviated
transcript  of Celeni's remarks.  (Possible spelling errors exist
and are not noted.)]


                -+- Hillary and the Meth Labs -+-

INTERVIEWER:   Under  what  pretext   were  you,  shall  we  say,
"suckered," into Little Rock?

FRED CELENI:  The theory was we were going to  be  getting  money
from  the  Glasgows that was going to go to Hillary Clinton.  And
it  concerned  a   methamphetamine   operation.    And  the  same
methamphetamine operation, the same people  associated  with  it,
are  directly  related to a man by the name of David Hale, who is
now, supposedly,  the  government's  star  witness  in  this case
against McDougal and Hillary and Jim Guy Tucker.

INTERVIEWER:  So you were going to set her up on some kind  of  a
drug deal?

FRED  CELENI:  No, just the opposite.  What was happening was, we
were supposed to make her look  like, kind of like, Nancy Reagan:
"Just say 'no' to drugs."  Well, Hillary  Clinton  was  going  to
"reveal"  this information about David Hale, and help the FBI and
the Marshalls arrest David Hale  in  a sting operation.  The idea
was, was to stop David Hale.
   You've got to remember what's important here.  The day  I  got
arrested  in  Little  Rock,  an  hour later I was standing in the
United States District Judge's  court.  (If I remember correctly,
his name was Forrester.)  And I said, "Judge Forrester, I  am  an
officer  of  the federal government.  I work for John Dingell, of
the Congressional Committee on  Oversight Investigations.  I have
complete immunity."  I presented my immunity letter, the minute I
got arrested.

INTERVIEWER: How did the judge respond?

FRED CELENI:  He told me, "You're not being held for this  crime.
We're  holding  you  as  a parole violator."  That's how they got
away with it.

INTERVIEWER:  What do  you  think  the  purpose  was, for them to
arrest you?

FRED CELENI:  What had happened  was,  two  days  before,  I  had
called  up Vince Foster.  And I said, "Vince, why am I being told
to wind everything down?"  He said, "Hey, basically the operation
is finished."  He said, "We've  got  the election; the polls show
it.  We're just wrapping things up."  I said, "Well where  is  my
*quid  pro  quo*?"   He  said, "Well as soon as he's in the White
House, you're gonna get it."  I  said, "What am I gonna get?"  He
said, "You're gonna get a pardon."
   Well, Vince was correct:  As soon as Clinton got in the  White
House, I sure "got it," all right.  But it wasn't a pardon.  What
I  got  was an order, to Webster Hubbell, that said, "Fred Celeni
is to be kept  incommunicado."   When  Prime Time Live, ABC News,
came to see me, they were not allowed in to  see  me.   Based  on
Hubbell's  orders.  When Dateline NBC came, they were not allowed
to see me.  Based on Webster Hubbell's orders, as number 2 man at
the Justice Department.

INTERVIEWER: How do you know that the President ordered this?

FRED CELENI:  It came out in a hearing, shortly before the trial,
where we went in and  said,  "Your honor, they're not allowing us
to talk to the media."  And the judge said,  "It's  okay  if  Mr.
Hubbell  wants  him kept away from these channels, without direct
access, because Celeni can talk to them on the telephone.  That's
not a denial of his First Amendment rights."

INTERVIEWER:  Where were you in July  of 1993?  July the 19th, to
be precise.

FRED CELENI: I was on trial in Little Rock, Arkansas.

INTERVIEWER: And you were housed where?

FRED CELENI:  At the North Little Rock Police Jail, I guess  they
call it.

INTERVIEWER:  You got a call from Washington, DC, on the night of
July 19th. Tell us about it.

FRED  CELENI:   I  was  brought  out  of  my  jail cell, into the
Sergeant's office.  And they closed  the  doors and the man said,
"Here," handed me a telephone, pressed a button,  and  he  walked
out  of the room.  And I said, "Hello?"  And a female voice said,
"This is Fred Celeni?"  And I  said, "Yes, it is."  And she said,
"This is the signals operator.  Will you  hold  please?"   And  I
said, "Yes, I will."  And about 30 to 45 seconds went by, and Mr.
Foster came on the line.

            -+- Vince Foster Gets Made Horizontal -+-

INTERVIEWER: And what did you talk about?

FRED  CELENI:  We basically talked about the fact that I had been
writing to him and I  had  made  a  couple of phone calls.  And I
asked for documentation, and I asked if he'd be willing  to  come
and testify in my behalf.

INTERVIEWER: And what did he say?

FRED CELENI: He said he was going to send some documents.
   We got into talking about a lot of things.  And he told me, he
said,  "You  know,  I'm worried."  And I said, "Why is that?"  We
got to talking about the  lawyer  I  had (Gregory Bryant), and he
told me Gregory Bryant was called "The  Snake."   He  said,  "Did
'The  Snake' try to find out who 'The Rabbi' is?"  I said, "Yeah,
he's been trying to find out."
   [Then  we  talked  further,  and  Foster  said,]  "I  was told
yesterday that I'll be killed if any  of  this  comes  out."   He
didn't  use  the word "killed"; he said, "I was told that I'll be
made horizontal."  I said, "Who  told  you this?"  He said, "Webb
Hubbell took me out yesterday.  Webb said to  me,  'Let  me  tell
you,  Vince.   This  Celeni  situation:   if  you don't shut your
f**king mouth,'  he  said,  'Buddy  Young  will  make sure you're

INTERVIEWER: And what happened to Vince Foster the next day?

FRED CELENI:  The next day, I came into court.   I  had  no  idea
what  was going on.  And Gregory Bryant said to me, "The Rabbi is
no more."
   But what got me was, he knew it at 9:30 in the morning.

INTERVIEWER: On the 20th?

FRED CELENI: On the 20th. Vince wasn't dead yet.

INTERVIEWER:  So  at  9:30  in  the  morning,  on  the 20th, your
attorney is saying, "The Rabbi is no more."

                     [ be continued...]

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