Special thanks to Charles Lewton (clewton@eskimo.com) for 
transcribing the following lecture by Dave Emory.

(Part 4 of 4)



Question and Answer Period

Q:  In January there was a talk by Socialist Action in San
Francisco on the assassination of Malcolm X and two eyewitnesses
spoke and they made some very dramatic points which you did not
mention.  One being that every time Malcolm X spoke, usually there
were twenty policemen around, and the day of the murder or
assassination, there weren't any, or maybe there was one or two
token.  The other point that they made was in the actual,
immediately after the assassination, the crowd captured the two
guys, the one that was wounded and another one, and the one that
was wounded was documented, etc., but the other one, the police got
him and he never showed up in jail.  He was never booked or
anything like that.  And they also went into the cover-up and in
the cover-up, the three guys who were on trial said they were part
of the Black Muslims.  Even at the trial, they testified that there
were five people.  That was one of the things that was completely
covered up by the prosecution, etc., in the official story, and I
was just wondering did that escape your notice?

A:  I have heard that.  I do not recall seeing that in any printed
sources.  I am not casting aspersions on what they were saying.  I
recall hearing that in discussions with other researchers.  I,
myself, have not read that, that I can recall.  It should be noted
I don't present either of these discussions as having all of the
information about the assassinations of King or Malcolm X.  There
are other things to go into. With Martin Luther King, for example,
I haven't talked about James Earl Ray's flight, which was one of
the very interesting things, aspects of it.  Ray was able to
successfully elude an international manhunt in which he utilized
evasion techniques which appear to be far more sophisticated than
what he had been able to do.  As I say, he previously couldn't
knock over a liquor store in Missouri without getting apprehended,
and yet he was able to elude an international manhunt, in which
among other things, he used fake id using the names of real people
who were deceased, all of whom lived within a short distance of
each other in Canadian cities and who bore a physical resemblance
to James Earl Ray.  That is a very sophisticated technique usually
used by intelligence agencies alone because they are the only ones 
that have the resources, or somebody with considerably resources.
James Earl Ray utilized those techniques.  That strongly suggests
that he was being aided in doing that.  There are other aspects, to
both assassinations, that I have not covered.  I am trying to give
people a basic grasp of what happened with each and also relating
them to the political directions being undertaken by both men and
the political environment in which they existed at the time. 
Namely the Civil Rights movement, the anti-Vietnam-War movement,
and in particular to indicate the forces that killed them and how
they relate to what we face today.

Q:  Also, I have been in contact with the political prisoners in
the United States.  There is still a large number who were put
behind bars by the COINTELPRO efforts and they are still rotting in
prison and, you know, there is dire action needed on the public's
part to try to help them get out and receive justice.  So if anyone
wants any information on that, they can contact me.

A:  Alrighty.  Thanks for your contribution.

Q:  Okay.  I've got a couple of, I want your opinion on a couple of
things.  Recently, on the line of assassinations, the CIA killings
in the morning, the people going to work in the CIA, gunned down by
a supposedly Pakistani with an AK-47.  Also, the day before the
trials beginning in Los Angeles, two police officers were shot,
apparently in the head, before they could take their weapons out,
smacks of some type of assassination, and also, in the paper there
has been reported a theft of a large number of handguns from Los
Angeles, attributed probably to gangs, but I think it amounted to
like 5000 handguns turned up missing in Los Angeles.

A:  That's a lot of guns.  It may be the city of Angels if those
things get, would be used.

Q:  It all smacks of some type of indication of some provocation on
whoever's part.  If you know anything about that, any comments.

A:  No, I am aware of all the things you talk about except not the
handguns missing.  That I have not come across.  Now I think there
are a lot of things we have to watch out for.  You can't say for
sure, yes, this is part of a program of provocation.  At the same
time, though, the things you have talked about are symptomatic of
a program of provocation and there are some pretty firm historical
indications, not only that the LAPD, or elements thereof, have
worked with the intelligence community in the past on provocations
and specifically vis-a-vis the Afro-American community in Los
Angeles.  But, there are some very serious questions about the
rioting in Los Angeles.  In weeks to come, I am going to be talking
about that history and in particular the disclosures or at least
statements made by a guy named Frederick Salani (sp), who was the
defense counsel for Damion Williams, who has been on trial now in
the Denny beating case, and Salani claims, I don't know how
accurate his claims are, he claims that his organization, it was
something like the Center for Constitutional Law, or something, I
have forgotten its name off the top of my head, but that it was
basically an intelligence front that Damion Williams' confession
was obtained by drugging him and getting him to confess and also
Salani claimed that the rioting in Los Angeles was started by
government agents, which some eyewitnesses have stated, in fact. 
I warned, in a live talk on KPFK, there's a guy at KPFK, the
Pacifica station in Los Angeles, who airs my program on late night
during the week and I do a live talk down there via phone hookup
the first Wednesday of each month, and when the officers were
indicted, I warned about the possibility of a generated disturbance
because the LAPD does have a history of doing that kind of thing. 
With the tensions in the community down there as ripe as they were
for that kind of explosion, I've just felt that the situation was
ripe for exploitation and it would have worked very nicely to the
benefit of George Bush and also could have been used as the pretext
for beginning to establish martial law.  And then eventually,
courtesy of Harry Martin, who first revealed the information on
"One Step Beyond", I now have it confirmed from two published
sources.  One of them, by the way, an article in the January, 1993
issue of *The Atlantic*, the orders issued to the military and to
the National Guard in the Los Angeles disturbances were marked
"Garden Plot" and it was operation "Garden Plot/Cable Splicer"
which in the 1960s and '70s provided for the coordination of the
military, the civilian and military intelligencies, and state and
local law enforcement to combat both the antiwar movement and the
civil rights and black power movement, and it was while working on
operation "Cable Splicer and Garden Plot" that Lewis Euphreda (sp)
and Frank Salcedo (sp), then working for the California Specialized
Training Institute in San Luis Obispo, developed the contingency
plans which became the seed for the Rex '84 Operation Night Train
Martial Law Contingency Plan.  And that was based on a contingency
plan to round up upwards of twenty million black Americans and put
them in "detention centers" in the event of a disturbance by "black
militants", which LAPD intelligence community were perfectly
capable of producing, so I do think we have to be very careful
about another explosion in Los Angeles and it would not surprise me
if the authorities would like to trigger something like that.  I
see a lot of very dangerous signs in connection with what is
happening with Bill Clinton.  The authorities in this country don't
like him and I think some fairly direct signals are being sent to
Clinton that if he doesn't basically stay the course vis-a-vis
national security matters, then he could be disposed of.  I was
very disturbed by the bombing yesterday in New York and there are
a number of other things that I think bode very poorly for the
future so I share your concern and I think it is important that you
noted those things.  And certainly, police with two officers having
been killed, there is nothing that sets off a cop like another cop
getting killed, which I can understand.  I have some friends in law
enforcement and it is an embattlement almost like being in the
military.  It is very much an "us and them" mentality and when
another officer gets killed, there is nothing that sets off police
sentiments, and there is also a very strong white-supremacist
presence in the LAPD.  A lot of Nazi and Klan organizations
penetrated LAPD and there are elements of the LAPD that work with
the intelligence community, so we've got to be careful and I don't
know if we can...inaudible....

Q:  Inaudible.....

A:  Yeah, there are a number of things that I am going to be
discussing in weeks to come.  I would note also that the attorney
general, well let's just say the justice department, which under
George Bush, was headed up by William Barr (sp), a "ex" CIA
operative who had left the CIA in early '77 when Jimmy Carter was
conducting a house cleaning with, among others, George Bush, he
headed up the justice department and the justice department
released a prosecution memo to the officers defense counsel, which
is strange behavior.  I would also note that William Barr, after
retiring from Justice went to work for the law firm representing
Earl Bryan (sp), one of the people implicated by many in both
October Surprise and the Inslaw case, so a strange situation.

Q:  Yeah, I was wondering if you could comment on the programming
you mentioned Purdy, the programming techniques used for setting up
patsies like Oswald and the way that they coincided with, say, the
setting up of Van de Lubo (sp) with the Reichstag and how that
pertains to the Nazi intelligence agencies being absorbed into the
CIA after World War II.

A:  Yeah, as far as actual mind control, that has been developed by
a number of intelligence services and it was under development
during World War II by others.  It's never been clear whether Lee
Harvey Oswald was programmed in any way. He didn't kill president
Kennedy.  There have been allegations that he was programmed.  I
cannot either confirm those or deny them.  There is some discussion
of that in Radio Free America #5.  Patrick Edward Purdy, on the
other hand, does appear to have been programmed.  We can't say for
sure, but the circumstances surrounding his activities before and
immediately prior to, just before the shooting, suggest he may have
been a mind control patsy.  He did too much travelling and bought
too many things for the resources available to him and he looks to
me like he probably was.  With regard to the incorporation of much
of The Third Reich's intelligence system into this country at the
end of the war, that helps to promote the use by the U.S. of what
I would call the Scorzani (sp) methodology in which a small
incident involving a relatively small number of people can be
manipulated strategically to produce a result that normally would
have been achievable only with a commitment of a large number of
resources.  Yesterday's bombing, for example, at the World Trade
Center, whatever it turns out to be, I suspect that it was a
provocation, and I suspect elements associated with the Eustaze
(sp) as having been involved.  But if you look at the actual number
of people that were involved, it was relatively small, what, five,
maybe seven people were killed and a couple of hundred injured, and
yet that incident has absolutely transfixed the attention of this
entire country and yet it really only involved a small number of
people.  That is in Radio Free America #22, which I recently
replayed by way of providing some background material to RFA #38
that I am doing now.  The Scorzani methodology, the influence of SS
Colonel Otto Scorzani on the development of world terrorism, both
in terms of methodology and in terms of operational connections was
discussed and in my opinion, the archetypal incident, the seminal
incident for generating the methodology of modern terrorism was the
capture of Miki Horte (sp) during the closing stages of World War
II.  Miki Horte was the playboy son of Hungarian head-of-state
Admiral Nicholas Horte.  Hungary was one of Germany's wartime
allies and was the last of Germany's allies to desert it, other
than Japan, and the Horte government was conducting secret
negotiations with the Soviet Union and basically the Hungarian
troops were getting sick and tired of being chewed-up and they
wanted to switch sides and then turn against the Nazis.  This
obviously would have collapsed the Nazi front, the Third Reich
front.  So what Scorzani did was, he kidnapped Admiral Horte's son
and held him for ransom, and only when Horte broke off negotiations
with the Soviets was Miki Horte released.  Only a very small number
of people were involved as combatants.  A few Hungarians and a few
Nazis were killed and the kidnapped son was held and ultimately
released and through this one incident, though, Scorzani was able
to keep Hungary in the war on Germany's side to the very end, until
Soviet troops completely overran the country.  That in many ways
was the seminal incident, the methodological archetype for modern
terrorism where we see a relatively small number of individuals
being killed or kidnapped or whatever and yet the attentions of an
entire nation or the entire world can be transfixed by such an
incident, yet the actual number of people involved and the
commitment of resources was relatively modest for a relatively
large effect.

Q:  Very briefly, yesterday on the Larry King show, Jimmy Breslin
of New York City said that it was foreigners and that it was
terrorism.  Now, just for the record because you've said something
about the Eustase, I would like you to kind of clarify, which I
suspect, that you would agree that it's very hard to distinguish
the Eustase from the CIA from a number of other organizations, so,
when you say that, make real clear to all of us that it is not
necessarily foreigners and what it might appear to be, some kind of
terrorism from abroad.

A:  Well, that is why I said that in my opinion it was a
provocation.  The Eustase have worked in conjunction with U.S.
intelligence.  I talked about that in Radio Free America #36 and
touched on it again in #37. I've talked about it in Radio Free
America show #15 and I am going to be coming back to it, not only
in conjunction with discussion about the World Trade Center bombing
which initially Croatian extremists took credit for but also
eventually the assassination of Olaf Palme which may very well have
been connected to a number of things Palme was doing in opposition
to U.S. national security policy, including closing down all of the
Iran-Contra Arms pipelines.  So, I think your comment is well taken
in that one should not use that incident like that to become
xenophobic.  The Eustase are able to operate in this country and on
behalf of this country only because they do so with official
sanction.  One of the keys, vis-a-vis the media handling of the
World Trade Center bombing has been the statements by "terrorist
experts" about how easy something like this is to do.  "Why anybody
can just pack a car up with explosives and drive it in and park
it".  Yes, it is real easy to do that but it is not easy to know
how to hook up plastic explosive.  The percentage of our population
that knows how to rig up a successful car bomb is relatively small
and access to C4 or any plastic explosive is really difficult.  You
might be able to get your hands on a stash of C4, but right after
you have taken possession of it, either ATF or FBI or somebody else
is going to swoop down and pick you up.  From what I know from my
own contacts, journalistic and professionals in the intelligence
community, it is really difficult to get hold of plastic
explosives.  The government monitors that sort of thing very
carefully.  You don't just get hold of a carload of plastic
explosive.  It is not like bathroom caulking, it's different.

Q:  I want to know if you thing it is possible or likely that the
current U.S. military operation in Somalia was developed or
conceived as possibly a readiness exercise in anticipation of
future riots in the urban ghetto, especially in the wake of the
riots in L.A.

A:  Well, one of the things that I've emphasized over the years,
and I will reiterate it again is that when our national security
establishment decides to move in any given direction, they do so
when to make that move will satisfy a number of different strategic
considerations at different levels.  Now with regard to Somalia, I
think there is a distinct possibility that that may be a
preconceived covert operation.  Certainly it is in a strategic part
of the world and whatever the political makeup opposed U.S
occupation in Somalia, that occupation is going to have a great
deal to do with determining what happens.  You have a country where
starvation is rampant, the people that are going to survive are the
people who have access to the food and we are now in a position to
determine that.  It is a matter of public record that we helped to
arm many of the warlords.  According to a professional contact in
the intelligence community, we've controlled all of those warlords.
U.S. intelligence has controlled all of those bastards for a long
time.  I don't present that as objective fact, that comes from
someone who was very reliable in the past and he said flat out when
I asked him, he said "look, we have controlled all those guys all
along."  And it is a matter of public record, in fact I discussed
it in Radio Free America #20 and came back to it in #25, that the
Siadberre (sp) government was armed in part by the U.S.
intelligence community, utilizing in part, the Stebom (sp) arms-for
drugs ring which figures in Iran-Contra and in shooting the pope
and a number of other things.  Now, we know that the current U.S.
ambassador to Somalia is Robert Oakley, who was one of the state
department collaborators with Oliver North in the Contra support
effort.  I talked about, last week, the infrastructures that grew
out of the vice-president's task force on counter-terrorism. 
Oakley is one of the main operatives of that group.  We also know
that much of the "missionary" work that is being done in Somalia is
being done by World Vision and that World Vision has served as a
vehicle for U.S. intelligence activities in the past both in
Central America and Southeast Asia.  Whether or not it is doing so
in Somalia is anybody's guess, however, certainly a possibility
that I think has to be seriously considered, I would also note that
U.S. oil companies have secured the rights to what are apparently
considerable petroleum reserves in Somalia and that in fact, I
believe that one of Conoco's buildings has actually served as the
operational headquarters for coordinating the U.S. military effort
there.  And I would also note, too, that as you pointed out, first
of all it should be stated that the Somalia mission is tremendous
PR for the military which now has to justify its large budgets in
the post-cold war period and to present itself as a world-peace
keeper and civic organization and in fact this is tremendous PR for
the post-cold war military.  I would also note that enlistments
soared as a result of the Somalia mission.  But, hell, you're a
young dude, what do you want to do, you want to join the military,
see the world, you want to have all kinds of people hail you as
some sort of saviour.  It is a 19-year-old male's fantasy to be
seen as a knight in shining armor.  It's great.  It's also doing
really nicely in helping to forestall post-cold war budget cuts for
the military.  I would also note that it is, as you very
perceptively pointed out, whether or not it was intended this way,
to give the military practice in helping to keep in line civilian
population.  And also, I would note whether or not there is any
connection, I have noted a similarity in the way the Somalia
situation has been portrayed in the media and the way the situation
in many or our inner cities is being portrayed.  In other words,
there was a lot of publicity about this drug called khat which
apparently is a narcotic that is widely used in Somalia and khat is
being blamed for much of the country's problems and apparently the
flow of this drug is being regulated in part by the warlords that
are also in control of things.  And I have noted a similarity in
the portrayal of the warlords khat-crazed, khat-dealing, warlords,
armed to the teeth, these gangs of rowdy, radical, uncontrollable
people, basically a sort of anarchy, an armed, drug-crazed anarchy
that prevails in Somalia and of the media handling of much of the
inner-city areas too, where crack cocaine-crazed, you know, armed
to the teeth, gangs are portrayed as being in possession of our
inner cities and I can see very easily how in the minds of the
average "cracker" American, a connection could be made between what
we are doing in Somalia and "by God, what we got to do there in Los
Angeles, get troops in there, kick a little ass and teach them
niggers a lesson they are never going to forget".  I am not trying
to offend anybody, but let's face it, a lot of people in this
country think that way and I can very easily see Joe and Jane
SixPack making that sort of an equation by watching what is going
on in Somalia.  "By God, we handle the niggers over there, we will
handle the niggers here too".  Seriously, that is the way a lot of
people in this country think.

Q:  As we sit there and watch all this stuff roll out before our
eyes, if you could look into your picture of it, where do you think
we go from here and what is it going to look like in the next six

A:  It is going to get worse, I think, much worse.  You know, as
far as where we are going now, I am afraid that the Clinton
administration is simply a hiatus, it's a respite.  I think Clinton
is already being handed signs of destabilization and unless people
recognize the lessons of history, he is going to be destabilized. 
I seriously wonder about what sorts of signals might be being sent
behind the scenes to Clinton.  I mean, here, the area that the
Secret Service used to store its vehicles has just been utilized to
plant a major bomb.  Who knows what was behind that.  I've noted
too, and I have more questions than answers about a lot of things,
but I noted that in the 1980s, there was a lot of discussion about
a proposal about gene splicing, an experiment in which e-coli, the
bacterium that is implicated in this food poisoning in the Jack-in-
the-Box restaurant, there was a genetic engineering experiment in
which the gene which produced diphtheria toxin was going to be
introduced into e-coli.  There was a tremendous uproar over this
because e-coli is the most omnipresent microorganism in the world. 
Every human, in fact virtually every mammal has large, copious
quantities of e-coli in their intestines.  It is all throughout the
sewer system and if a genetically engineered variation of e-coli,
featuring the diphtheria genes were unleashed into the population,
this could produce havoc.  There may be no connection whatsoever,
but I noted that recently in this Jack-in-the-Box poisoning with e-
coli that was implicated.  And I noted that whatever this was, it
was different than the usual food poisoning.  I have worked in the
restaurant as a manager, a cook, a waiter, and food poisoning isn't
contagious and some of these kids contracted this disease from
other people who had eaten at the restaurants.  And just stop and
think for a minute what well-known political figure generates a lot
of publicity in recent weeks over his trips to fast food
restaurants.  I wonder whether they may be sending a message to
Bill Clinton.  I note that in the summer of 1979, Jimmy Carter was
considering a complete revamp of his administration and a complete
readjustment of his policy and he made some public statements to
the effect that he thought there was a conspiracy behind the
assassination of president Kennedy.

One thing I really noted, it got very little publicity, but he said
"We are going to have to go all the way back to the assassination
of president Kennedy to get this country right." That was an
extraordinary thing for a seated president to say.  No sooner was
Jimmy Carter doing that than in May, it actually began before the
summer of 1979, but on a trip to Los Angeles there was an aborted
attempt on Jimmy Carter's life.  Two gunmen that had come up from
Mexico, named Ray Lee Harvey and Oswaldo Ortiz, in other words, Ray
as in James Earl Ray and Lee Harvey as in Lee Harvey Oswald and
Oswaldo Ortiz were arrested for stalking Jimmy Carter with a rifle. 
They just seem to have disappeared.  There was no follow-up on the
prosecution or anything like that.  I suspect that a message was
being sent to Jimmy Carter, and I wonder, and I am not saying this
is the case, but among the questions I have, I never..the e-coli
outbreak at Jack-in-the-Box.  I just wonder if Bill Clinton might
be getting told something today.  "Listen Bill, you know, lot of
kids eat at fast-food restaurants and if you don't want anything to
happen to Chelsea, you know, or something to happen to Hillary, or
something to happen to you, you better shape up.  And it may be
that all he has to do is avoid prosecuting the numerous scandals or
avoid investigation of numerous scandals.  But I am concerned about
what I see.  I also look at the juxtaposition of articles in the
newspaper talking about Bill Clinton as the next Jimmy Carter.  One
Sunday edition of the Mercury, there was a big article talking
about already it looks like Clinton is going to be the next Jimmy
Carter, which is what I said, by the way, the week after Clinton
got elected.  Somebody accused me of fatalism, but right next to
that, the Secret Service is really worried about how folksy Bill
Clinton is and how he is really exposing himself to assassination
by another one of our lone nuts.  The two were juxtaposed.  I
didn't like the juxtaposition of those articles.  Again, I am not
saying this is, these are not statements I am making, they are
questions I am asking.  There are an awful lot of weird things
happening and I wonder about the shooting at CIA headquarters.  I
wonder whether messages are being sent to Bill Clinton.  Who the
hell knows what he gets told late at night.  A White House phone
rings and someone says "Listen, Billy Baby, you see that shooting
down at CIA headquarters?, well, a lot of shooting is going to
happen at a lot of headquarters.  You just stay the course, you
don't look into this Iran-Contra, or Inslaw, or any of this other
things too closely, or by God, you know, you are going to have an
eternal flame at Arlington Cemetery yourself bucko, so watch your
step."  I noted, whether there is any connection or not, you know
Bill Clinton visited, had actually met JFK when he was a youngster
and he visited Kennedy's grave, the eternal flame,  and knelt in
silent prayer.  I don't know if anybody noted what he brought to
the grave site (a white rose).  George Bush's intelligence nickname
was "The White Rose" and Clinton delivered a white rose to the
grave of John F. Kennedy.  I don't know, it might have been just
coincidence, there are coincidences.  It may have been somebody was
making a statement.  It may be that Clinton had no idea but one of
his intelligence people said, "Hey Bill, why don't you bring this to
Kennedy's grave" knowing that it had a larger significance.  May be
complete BS, but again those are the things I wonder about, because
I am convinced at this point there is a whole stratum of
communication which the general public doesn't see.  You know,
these people talk to each other and I strongly suspect that Bill
Clinton has had some cold water splashed in his face and this may
be a component of communication.  On the other hand, it may not be,
it may be just coincidence.

Q:  I am 36 years old now and I grew up right here in this town, I
served in the Vietnam war in the Marine Corps.  My father was a
Navy officer and I look back at all the things that have happened
in the last 25 years and I wonder what the real motivations were
and I actually think it goes before Kennedy.  So could you possibly
address what you thing the motivations, the real motivations are
for this.  What has happened to us in the last 25 years.  There has
to be more to it than just greed and killing and money and power. 
I thing there is a bigger picture there.

A:  Well, in terms of answering your question, I can't give you a
quick answer in the course of the discussion this evening because
really the answer to that question is the substance of my whole
life's work and in turn I have incorporated the research of an
awful lot of other people over the decades and attempted to display
the spectrum of antifascist research.  I am an antifascist
researcher.  The best that I could do for you would be to refer you
to Radio Free America #37.  Hardly a short answer, but that
particular effort, which to date I consider my best piece of work
and most important piece of work, really goes to explain the flow
of history in the 20th century.  That work is already making some
waves in a number of different quarters.  But the overall
explanation is not a short one or a brief one.  It is something
that I have tried to portray in the other archive shows.  In the
next few weeks, I am going to be doing a program which is
specifically going to be intended as an introduction or an epilogue
to Radio Free America #37, in which I am going to explain some of
the premises that I am operating on and I hope that will answer
your question.  But what I am going to be doing as the main element
of that is to read the speech that Adolph Hitler gave before the
Industry Club of Dusseldorf in 1931.  It was that speech that won
many of Germany's top industrialists over to Hitler's side.  There
were a number of reactionary political parties in Weimar Germany. 
The Nazi party became, ultimately, the choice of the industrialists
for a variety of reasons.  One of the main ones was that Hitler's
speech before the Industry Club of Dusseldorf won them over, and to
make a long story short, that speech basically maintained that
democracy was inherently subversive and equated democracy with
communism because, according to Hitler, if you allowed people
political freedom, political democracy, they would use that to
effect a redistribution of wealth, which Hitler said was counter-
evolutionary, not counterrevolutionary, but counter-evolutionary,
because, as Hitler put it, those who enjoy superior positions in
society, wealthy industrialists and financiers, enjoy those
positions because they are themselves superior and they have used
their superior abilities to gain a superior position in society and
that is a just situation.  Sort of social Darwinism.  He maintained
it was subversive to allow democracy because if you allow democracy
to people, they will use their political democracy to effect a
redistribution of wealth and that is counter-evolutionary because
it allows inferior people to gain a superior position in society
and, of course, the top industrialists and financiers ate that up. 
That was just what they wanted to hear.  That is as close as I
could come to giving you an answer to your question.  Yeah, it
really is about greed and money and power.

Q:  I hope to hear more from you on Majestic 12 in the future.

A:  We are going to be moving in that direction.  That is a UFO
disinformation group and we are going to be talking about the whole
UFO question as it relates to a lot of these things.  Political and
sociological implications of the UFO phenomenon and the ET myth in
weeks to come.

Q:  I take it that you think that "they" are fascist elements and
that they have garnered enough power to be able to call the
president of the United States at night and threaten him?

A:  This is one of the questions that I have.  I suspect, yes.  I
am convinced that they do send messages.  How explicit this is, I
can only guess.  In other words, I wonder.  The statements that I
made, I want to make very clear, as I went into the discussion of
the White Rose, etc., those things, yes I wonder what goes on
outside of the public viewpoint, you know, when someone like Bill
Clinton, who really was out of the loop, so to speak, even though
some of the Contra support operation did happen in Arkansas on his
watch, he is clearly not a national security insider ala George
Bush.  When you get a guy like that or a guy like Jimmy Carter, and
Clinton had been backed by the same faction of the national
security establishment that Carter was backed by, but it does not
appear to be a controlling faction.  Although one which has
sufficient power to frustrate some of the designs of the dominant
elements, which are exclusively fascist.  It is a question I have
again, the facts, you know, where Jimmy Carter says we better go
back to the assassination of president Kennedy and then two lone
nuts named Ray Lee Harvey and Oswald Ortiz show up and the thing
that struck me as so unusual about that was that that case
disappeared from the news.  I do not know what happened to those
guys, and nobody I know knows what happened to those guys.  It was
a big story one or two days and then that was it.  I wonder whether
Carter was being told "listen you stupid jerk, you want to go back
to the assassination of president Kennedy, we will take you back,
Cracker, we will take you all the way back".

Q:  I am just curious because I am a new listener to your radio
program and this is the first of your public appearances that I
have been at and if there is such a clear connection between the
assassination of Kennedy and Martin and Malcolm (and Robert Kennedy
and the shooting of George Wallace), then there has to be an
equally clear group.  If those incidences are interrelated and
interconnected, there must be one source you are tracing this back
to and so you are saying that there is a fascist element.

A:  Yes, and a dominant one at this point.  That is why I talked
about the parallels between what happened in Germany and Japan with
the assassination programs of the Black Reichfere and the Patriotic
Societies and compared that to the assassinations in the United

Q:  Just a reminder to people, it seems like every time a really
top-notch black person stands up and become a national figure, they
get undercut.  I would remind people that it is not just Malcolm X
and it isn't, you know, Martin Luther King.  We are talking about
Barbara Jordan.  Something happened to her and I would sure like to
know what it was.  You know, she is not dead, but she is out of the

A:  She was very against Robert Bork when he was being nominated to
be Chief Justice.

Q:  Barbara Jordan was absolutely brilliant and she had all the
makings of being a really significant world leader and now she
doesn't because of this incident that happened in the swimming
pool, we don't know what it was.  In addition to that, Harold
Washington, something happened to him, something like Phil Burton. 
You know, we are talking about, I think, a real plan to make sure
that there are no black leaders and, you know, we need to be aware
that every time they stand up, they get undercut or killed or
something happens.

A:  Yes, and not just black leaders, but progressive leaders of all
types.  In the beginning of the discussion this evening, I talked
about the ones that had been shot to death.  There are many other
very curious deaths.  Vernon Jordan, a member of Clinton's
transition team, left from his position as head of the Urban League
after being shot and critically wounded by a white supremacist. 
His predecessor, Whitney Young drowned while on a trip to Africa. 
There are a lot of very questionable deaths, ones we cannot say
"yes, ipso facto, this is an assassination", but about which that
question should be asked.  I have a lot of questions about the
death of Mickey Leland, the congressman from Texas, who had been
very active on behalf of famine relief in Africa, which did not sit
too well with some elements of our national security establishment. 
Even more importantly, Mickey Leland was chairman of the House
Postal Oversight committee and had been very vocal in protest over
the awarding of the contract to fly the Express Mail to Evergreen
Airlines, which is a CIA-connected airline which bought out
Intermountain Aviation, a CIA-Air proprietary.  They were awarded
the contract to fly the Express Mail despite the fact that they
were not low bidder on the contract.  Mickey Leland was outraged by
this and was calling for a congressional investigation of how this
happened. Unfortunately, that investigation never took place
because Mickey Leland himself was express mailed over Ethiopia and
died in the crash of a private plane there.  Incidentally, Mickey
Leland's death and disappearance were used to conduct the largest
out-of-country search operation that the U.S. military air wings
have ever been engaged in.  At the time, whether or not there is a
connection, at the time, Ethiopia was a Marxist country and
obviously as such a target of U.S. covert operations.  Again, bear
in mind that when our national security establishment decides to
move in any given direction, they do so when to move in that
direction will scratch a number of different itches at different
levels, simultaneously.

That concludes the prepared portion of this broadcast.  Now all of
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