[From an interview with the former marketing director of the 
Arkansas Development and Finance Authority, and former associate 
of Bill Clinton, Larry Nichols. This interview took place on the 
May 5, 1994 "America's Town Forum" radio show, hosted by Tom 
Donahue.  The show is broadcast most weekday evenings at 7 pm 
(cst) on shortwave frequency 5.810 mHz. (Nichols speaks via 
telephone with Donahue.)]


TOM DONAHUE: Patriotism in action, Tom Donahue, "America's Town 
Forum." So glad you could join us on our, uh "town hall" today.

Let me just tell you what's coming up tomorrow and Monday: Gary 
Parks will be with us. He's the son of the slain Jerry Parks, who 
provided security detail for Bill Clinton during his Presidential 
campaign. And John Hillier(?) will be with us Monday.

So "Clinton-gate," 3 power-packed days. And today is no 
exception. Larry Nichols, our return guest. Larry worked for Bill 
Clinton at one time. He was the marketing director for the 
Arkansas Development and Finance Authority [ADFA]. Larry, I'm 
glad you're alive and well. I've heard you on other programs. 
It's, I know you're a bit tentative at times, you're kind of 
looking out the window, because you have *seen* the body count 
rise in the last year or so. And I'm sure that there is a certain 
amount of circumspection here as to whether you should be as 
public in telling what you're telling. But isn't there also a 
certain amount of "insurance" and security when you do so?

LARRY NICHOLS: Well that was the decision I made in 1990. I knew 
that there was a good chance if I came out against Clinton that 
I'd be one of the "unsolved mysteries" [i.e. murdered]. And it's 
been part of my plan all along that as long as I maintained a 
certain amount of visibility, then they really couldn't afford to 
hurt me. And I've tried to do that.

DONAHUE: O.K. Let's talk about, if you could, uh we have some 
stations just joining us; may not have been with us the first 
hour. Give us an overview of what you think the strongest 
allegations are against this President, this reprobate, 
degenerate President, and why you believe it will force him to 
either be *told* to, or "wake up and smell the roses," if you 
will, that it's time for him to go back to, uh "the chicken 
plucking state."

NICHOLS: The list of legitimate charges grows daily. As it 
relates to *me* and my time with him, certainly the most serious 
is that of laundering money through a state agency of which he 
had to sign off [i.e. give final approval] on every bond issue, 
number 1. Power brokering, number 2. Uh, slush funds, you name 

And if you took me plumb out of the picture, if you said, "O.K. 
Everything about you is not significant," then you have to go to 
what has happened since he's been President. And I think the 
greatest of all was the raid on Vince Foster's office by 
Nussbaum, his secretary, Hillary Clinton's personal secretary, 
and Patsy Thomasson. Now anybody would know that you do not go in 
and tamper with evidence.

I will tell you this, that a lady named Helen Dickey(?), who 
works at the White House, who was Chelsea's nanny in Arkansas, 
who went to Washington with them (uh, she could not get a 
security clearance, so they listed her as a security person), 
when, the day Foster died, she came into the White House and 
said, "Vince Foster has been shot in the parking lot, in his 

DONAHUE: Hmmm... [surprised, pensive]

NICHOLS: Now to corroborate that statement. She called back to 
the Governor's office here in Arkansas. And fortunately for us, 
and unfortunately for her and Clinton, the person that was on 
duty that took the call was none other than Roger Perry. {1}.


NICHOLS: Roger Perry had to take that same message and pass it on 
to the Governor and his wife. Now you say, "Well, what's 
significant about him being shot in the parking lot versus the 
park?" Even if we give them the point that he may have committed 
suicide, the fact that he was in... on the premises of the White 
House would give the law authorities immediate access to his 
office. The fact that he was in the park, not on the premises of 
the White House, meant that the police could be stalled by having 
them to get a search warrant.

Now Nussbaum -- and Tom, I think you know, I brought it out on 
your program -- when we first brought it out, they said that we 
were lying.

DONAHUE: Yep. Um-hmm [agrees].

NICHOLS: Well then we find out they did do it.

Well then they said they took nothing from the office, from the 
safe. Then we found out they did. Now that is tampering with 
evidence in a criminal investigation. And a suicide, until it's 
ruled a suicide, is a criminal investigation. Law school 101 
tells everybody not to tamper with evidence. That is a serious 

Now. Then we have the shredding of documents at the Rose Law 
Firm. We have... You know, I said it on your program. "They're 
shredding documents." Everybody called me a liar.

DONAHUE: Right. That's right.

NICHOLS: Well now we have the people that were shredding the 
documents. Even after Fiske told them not to even take out the 
garbage, the next day they were shredding documents. And are 
shredding them still.

DONAHUE: And at the Rose Law Firm as well.

NICHOLS: And at the Rose Law Firm. Now. How does that affect us? 
When Hillary Clinton had her press conference, last week or 
whenever, you must notice that she always said, "I don't believe 
that you will find anything to prove any wrongdoing."  "I don't 
think you will find..."  "I don't think you will find..."

DONAHUE: [chuckles] Those were her words. Yeah.

NICHOLS: Why didn't she just say, "No"?!

DONAHUE: She learned something from the Watergate investigation. 
She was an aide at that time to one of the congressmen, right?

NICHOLS: Yessir.

DONAHUE: Yeah. And so she learned that it probably does help to 
destroy evidence. Don't keep it around like Nixon did.

NICHOLS: That's right. And you know, it's easy for her to say, "I 
don't think you'll find...", when they've been shredding 
documents! If I'd have been shredding documents, I don't think 
you'd find it either!

So those are serious charges all.

DONAHUE: Let's go back to Foster. Uh, based on what you know, 
people you've talked to, your own investigation, is it possible 
it was a suicide? Or do you think the evidence is just so strong 
in the direction that he had to be "taken out" [i.e. murdered] 
for what he knew and... Tell us what you know.

NICHOLS: I can tell you this: That if it were a suicide, then 
it's the only one like it in the annals of forensic medicine or 
whatever they call that stuff. Because I've talked to tons of 
people: It just doesn't happen.

Then when you add to the fact that the man with the van {2}, that 
first found the body, has now been found... {3} You'll notice, 2 
weeks ago Robert Fiske was gonna issue a report clearing the way 
for a [determination of] suicide. Then all of a sudden, Gordon 
Liddy announces the man with the van. Robert Fiske does not 
release that report. And the man with the van, that found the 
body, said he walked around the body for some 20 minutes. There 
was no weapon anywhere, no gun to be found. And then when you add 
the fact that his statement, which was, you know, that he didn't 
even know he was dead because there was no blood, you know, just 
a trickle out of his nose, a little out the side of his mouth. 
You see, that's consistent with the ambulance driver's story.

No. Vince Foster didn't commit suicide.

DONAHUE: What would be the motivation to "take him out"? I'm 
saying that naively, but there are naive people out there. Maybe 
you can fill in the blanks.

NICHOLS: Vince Foster probably had the greatest amount of 
evidence, of anybody in America, of the absolute actions of Bill 
and Hillary -- their *illegal* actions. And I think he was about 
to snap: from the "Travelgate," the constant microscope of the 
media. He had information that, if it were to get out, would 
destroy Clinton. And, back to the other caller about the levels, 
the different tiers, I think he had information that would 
destroy several tiers up on the power structure. And at that 
point, he became a liability.

Did Bill Clinton sign an order to get him killed? No. The people 
that profit from Bill Clinton being where he's at, they take care 
of their own. And I think that Mr. Foster was in a precarious 

DONAHUE: I wonder who this organization of thugs are that are 
beating up reporters. Uh, you're finding people like Jerry Parks 
assassinated, um slain because he knew too much. You have, um I 
mean this really is a criminal enterprise, and it's gone from 
Arkansas to the White House.

NICHOLS: That's right. And I've tried to forecast that. I've 
tried to promise that to the people. And now, you see, with this 
criminal enterprise... *I* believe it's a criminal group. When 
you think about what they're doin', they're laughin' at us 
because they're sayin', "Now *our* guys have semi-automatic 
weapons. The police have 9-milimeter pistols."

It's the public that's armed and the public's gettin' mad and the 
public's gonna stand up and stop things if the police don't. 
They're gonna start taking... We're gonna be forced, as American 
people, that take the law into their own hands to clean up our 
neighborhoods. Agreed?

DONAHUE: Yeah {4}.

NICHOLS: If we are sitting there with equal force to match that 
of the bad guys, then the bad guys got problems.

DONAHUE: It's a travesty of justice. Because I have a case goin' 
on that they are, they have put together a vindictive prosecution 
against me because of what I know and what I tell on a daily 

And I walk into the Department of INjustice, or Criminal 
INjustice, and see the pictures of Bill Clinton, and "Butcher" 
Reno on the walls... You want to grab those and just smash 'em to 
the floor and stomp on them. You're just so sickened by it, 
because you know *those two* should be in jail.

NICHOLS: Well and that's the problem that I have. (By the way, 
Tom, I still can't hear you very well.) The problem I have is 
*where do you go*. When you walk in the courtroom, who do you 
see? Sneering at you. When you try to put your faith in the 
justice system, who's running it? They are.

DONAHUE: That's right.

NICHOLS: In Arkansas, in '88, everybody said, "Why didn't you 
come on out? Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that?" -- 
Who could I have gone to?

DONAHUE: Let's talk about what you did and when you knew that 
there was something wrong with the Arkansas Development and 
Finance Authority. What actions specifically did you take? And 
did you succeed?

NICHOLS: I made a mistake. If I could take back 30 seconds of my 
life, I'd do it different. I went to Clinton and told him he was 
breakin' the law, and that he had to tell or I would.

And then I was roasted mercilessly for 6 months. Destroyed. Now 
back in *those* days, people didn't understand that if you bring 
somethin' up, you get slammed by the media to protect Clinton. So 
everybody in Arkansas thinks I am what they said I am. When in 
fact, in 1989, I proved I didn't do what they said I was doin'. 
Not only that, I proved *they* were doin' it. And like the 
troopers' story, when they were found out, when the judge threw 
out the case, that they did not commit fraud because they had no 
evidence, you didn't hear in the media [that] the troopers were 
tellin' the truth! Therefore what they're sayin' about Clinton 
may be true. In 1989, I thought everbody would stand up and 
cheer; not one piece was printed.

DONAHUE: Your mistake was telling Bill Clinton, "'Fess up," "Tell 
the truth." Instead it gave him time to regroup and to retaliate.

NICHOLS: That, and I think if I look at what my family has paid, 
and if I look at what's happened to us and what's happening to me 
today: can't work, can't take money from people that want to 
help, 'cause if I do then I'll be discredited. And it's tough to 
fight the most powerful system in the world.

DONAHUE: It is. I understand. Let me ask you, what did you do, 
what actions did you take, against then-Governor Bill Clinton?

NICHOLS: In 1990, I filed a lawsuit. I had to go in '89 and learn 
law myself from the law library 'cause nobody would touch it. And 
that lawsuit in 1990 had everything that you're hearing today, 
for the most part. You'll notice one major thing: Bill Clinton, 
as everybody now knows, controlled the courts, he controlled the 
judges, he controlled the lawyers. If you doubt the integrity or 
the significance of the evidence that I can bring forth: Why did 
they not allow me to go to court and squish me like a bug? Why 
did they quash, maneuver my case from judge to judge, seal it, 
dismiss it under statute of limitations for slander when it was a 
libel suit with 3 years statute [of limitations], seal it back 
up, not even tell me or anybody else that they had opened it, 
sealed it, and closed it?

DONAHUE: Whole lotta chicanery goin' on back there in Arkansas. 
There's a lot of good people, it's a wonderful state, it's a 
beautiful state to visit. But there's an oligarchy there and Bill 
Clinton was part of it.

We're gonna come back with more of Larry Nichols' story. We're 
gonna take your calls, I promise, at 1-800-298-8255.

                       (to be continued)

---------------------------<< Notes >>---------------------------
{1} Roger Perry [Parry(?)] may be one of the Arkansas state 
{2} The man with the van: Reportedly the first person to discover 
Foster's body in Fort Marcy Park was a man driving a white van. 
This witness has remained anonymous for fear that something will 
happen to him if he goes public. As he has stated, "I don't want 
to end up like that guy in the park." He claims, through his 
advocate, G. Gordon Liddy, to have pulled into the park with the 
purpose of relieving himself. He went to a secluded area where he 
encountered Foster's corpse. This witness is emphatic that there 
was *no gun* anywhere in the vicinity when he first arrived on 
the scene. Furthermore, he has been interviewed by Liddy, a 
former FBI agent, who followed standard FBI interrogation 
procedure. Liddy is absolutely convinced that his witness is 
telling the truth and is completely credible.
{3} "...the man with the van... has now been found." Liddy's (see 
above) witness was persuaded by Liddy to be interviewed by the 
FBI. However this witness still chooses to remain anonymous to 
the general public.
{4} "...take the law into their own hands to clean up our 
neighborhoods. Agreed?" No, not agreed. Yes, some of what's going 
on is infuriating, but like the song says, "Keep cooly cool, 
boy." [From "West Side Story"].
   I see people supposedly on the verge of going on an armed 
march to Washington, DC. Then I see that John DiNardo has had a 
petition going around that simply asks that people *sign their 
names* so that a proper investigation of the Waco Massacre can 
begin. And when last I checked, John DiNardo couldn't even get 
*100 people just to sign their names*!! So am I to believe that 
we can't get 100 signatures, but that thousands of armed citizens 
are gonna march on Washington, DC? Here's a clue for you: If the 
FBI, CIA, etc. are monitoring this supposed march that is 
supposedly going to occur, my guess is that they are laughing 
their asses off. At us! At our stupid posturing that we can get a 
real response to a call for an armed march on Washington, DC.
   For all you brave people who won't sign a simple petition but 
will risk your lives in a march on Washington, DC: Here's 
something *really* brave you can try before your "grand march" -- 
public speaking. Gasp! Not that! Not public speaking! Sure, we'll 
pick up a gun and march to Washington, but *please* don't ask us 
to pick up a video camera, say something informative, and demand 
that it be played on public access television. We're gonna march 
and risk getting shot dead or imprisoned, but public speaking?! 
Gasp! Please, not that. That's too scary!
   Final disclaimer: I do *not* support any armed march on 
Washington, DC. I *do* support that we pick up our video cameras, 
march to the local cable operator, and go on public access TV. 
Now *that* would take some guts.