[From an interview with the former marketing director of the 
Arkansas Development and Finance Authority, and former associate 
of Bill Clinton, Larry Nichols. This interview took place on the 
May 5, 1994 "America's Town Forum" radio show, hosted by Tom 
Donahue.  The show is broadcast most weekday evenings at 7 pm 
(cst) on shortwave frequency 5.810 mHz. (Nichols speaks via 
telephone with Donahue.)]


TOM DONAHUE: We're back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum," 
patriotism in action, 1-800-298-8255.

Larry Nichols, our special guest. He worked with Bill Clinton 
when he was Governor. He was the marketing director of the 
Arkansas Development and Finance Authority [ADFA].

How long were you at this agency, and what problems did you 
encounter? I guess you had a moral dilemma and you resigned?

LARRY NICHOLS: I apologize for having to get off the phone. A 
California truck pulls up in my driveway and sets there, I get a 
little nervous...


NICHOLS: ...and, uh, as it turns out, they left. {1}. And I was 
on a talk show this morning -- I'm a little paranoid -- and the 
talk show received death threats, so, uh...

DONAHUE: I understand.

NICHOLS: It gets a little rough sometimes.

I was there [ADFA] from February of '88 until September of '88. 
It didn't take me long to get in and get out. The dilemma that I 
was involved in is simple: If you're standing next to someone, 
and they rob a 7-11, you have two choices: you either say 
nothing, at which point you become a part of the crime, or you 
tell the truth, which removes culpability. The problem I had...

DONAHUE: You're talking either an accomplice or a whistle blower.

NICHOLS: That's it.

DONAHUE: One way or the other.

NICHOLS: And it's not a good position to be in, I can assure you.

The problem I had at ADFA, you see the... when I first went 
there, they wouldn't include me in anything. When I'm the 
marketing guy, how can you not include me?

Well in about 2 months I started going to the board meetings. And 
I found out that people that should get loans, didn't; people 
that shouldn't [get loans], got 'em. And I went to the president, 
Lou Knepp(?), and I asked, "What's the criteria? We have a 
problem if people find out about this." And he said, "It's 
whoever Bill [Clinton] wants to get the loan."

Then I found out. The thing that startled me and scared me most, 
which was... (and I kind of hate to have to do these little 
histories, but you know, it's complicated.)

DONAHUE: Yes. Um-hmm. [affirmative]

NICHOLS: Mena airport was going strong in those days. And, uh, 
the Mena airport, for your listeners, is the little place in 
Arkansas, 5500-6000 people, and it had an airport that would land 

Barry Seal, who was hauling arms and supplies to the *Contras* 
during the early '80s {2}, had figured out that, goodness, he 
could bring his planes back and the DEA [Drug Enforcement Agency] 
would not touch them because they were CIA planes. So he started 
back hauling, from Columbia and Panama, cocaine. And he was 
running 100 million a month in cocaine through the little Mena 
airport. Well the problem at Mena was, you got that much cocaine 
and you've got that much money -- but you have to launder that 
money. Dan Lasater, Bill Clinton's best friend, who went to jail 
with Roger Clinton for cocaine -- not selling it, but giving it 
away -- had a bonding, a bonding house. And guess what? He did 
the bond underwriting for ADFA.

We found out 2 weeks ago from a high-ranking, ex-CIA official, a 
person who is authentic and he is on the record, that Dan Lasater 
was indeed the man that [Barry] Seal used to launder the money. 
For Mena. Some of that laundered money went into the Arkansas 
Development Finance Authority.

DONAHUE: Did you know that at the time?

NICHOLS: I didn't know it, but I found it out.

DONAHUE: Um-hmm. [understands]

NICHOLS: And uh, what they were doing, they would issue a bond 
and let's say give, like I told your audience before, Webster 
Hubbell {3}, who created ADFA -- I mean drafted it, legislated 
it, got it passed -- he and his father-in-law, Seth Ward, got the 
first loan at ADFA for $2.85 million. You can't find that he ever 
paid anybody back.

Other, other recipients of "loans" were Don Tyson, Tyson 
Industries, International Paper.

Well the problem at ADFA was you couldn't find one person that 
*ever bought the bonds*. What Lasater was doing was taking the 
drug money, running it through ADFA as if people were buying the 
bonds. That money would lead ADFA to one of the banks that they 
used out of state, 2 of which I think were in BCCI's [Bank of 
Credit and Commerce International, a.k.a. Bank of Crooks and 
Criminals International] network. And the other underwriter of 
bonds at ADFA at the time was none other than Stephens' 
investment firm. And the man that brought BCCI to America was 
Jackson Stephens.

One of the banks they used in Chicago, Guaranty, guess who owns 
part of it? Dan Rostenkowski. {4}.

DONAHUE: Dan Rostenkowski, yeah. Um-hmm [pensive].

NICHOLS: Now you understand the rest of the story, why when Bill 
Clinton first got elected he fired the federal prosecutor that 
was on Rostenkowski's case. You also see now why he broke 
precedent and went to Chicago and campaigned in a primary [for 

DONAHUE: But isn't it poetic justice that this Mr. Stevens {5} 
shows up, working in another department which ended up being Bill 
Clinton's worst haunt?

NICHOLS: [laughs] Yes it was. And uh, Mr. Stephanopoulos is gonna 
be a "sacrificial lamb" for that little exercise.

DONAHUE: Now, because of the verbal exchange and he was upset 
that Jay Stevens had been hired there and how could that have 

NICHOLS: Absolutely. Now you see, to show you how slick Clinton 
was, when he held his infamous press conference he said that no 
one in his cabinet called them. Well let me give your audience a 
little clue, or something they didn't know: *Time* magazine, as 
you know, wrote that Saturday, with their [news] feed, saying 
that, in fact, Stephanopoulos *had* called the RTC [Resolution 
Trust Corporation]. Bill Clinton knew it that night. He knew that 
that story was coming. Yet he stood there and lied to the 
American people and said they knew nothing about it. And you 
would think, "Gosh, what a technical blunder on his part. I mean, 
that was stupid."

It isn't. You see, I don't know what *Time* magazine's 
circulation is, but let's give it some millions. That does not 
match the hundreds of million that prime time TV brings to it.

DONAHUE: Right. Um-hmm. [understands]

NICHOLS: So some millions [read] the truth. But hundreds of 
millions of people heard him lie and believed it.

DONAHUE: Now Jay Stevens was a former U.S. attorney who was 
investigating Rostenkowski in the district there. Um, then he 
ended up with, um, what's the oversight organization regarding 
S&Ls? [Savings & Loans]


DONAHUE: Yeah. Right. So he ended up working out of that 
department instead. And *he* was the one that, for the most part, 
initiated the investigation into Whitewater and Madison Guaranty.

NICHOLS: Absolutely. And again, there's no connection between Jay 
Stevens and Jackson Stephens. Jackson Stephens is the wealthy man 
from Stephens investment firm out of Little Rock.

DONAHUE: Right. Um-hmm [understands]. Now what was Bill Clinton 
to gain, besides satisfying his corporate interests there in the 
state? Uh, let's talk about the direct connection that Bill 
Clinton... how he benefited through the Arkansas Development and 
Finance Authority.

NICHOLS: Well they, Bill Clinton and the power brokers, the 
Stephens, the "good ol' boy" political machine -- it's been 
around for over 100 years -- have been grooming Bill Clinton to 
run for President for 20 years.

The way he gained is, [for] every one of those loans, they had to 
make major campaign contributions. As a matter of fact, during 
the primary, when no other person could raise money, -- and I'm 
talking about Paul Tsongas, Kerry, I mean these are known 
entities -- Bill Clinton got $1.78 million of his campaign money 
from tentacles that are from ADFA. He got the balance of his 
money from tentacles that are the Stephens investment firm.

Now. When he entered the race as President, the day he entered, 
he had $10 million. And if you understand primary races, the man 
that wins in a primary is the person with money.

DONAHUE: He also used the same tentacles to acquire the 

NICHOLS: Absolutely. Now the problem that the American people 
have today, Tom, is this: When you deal with these people, you 
owe them. And now the American people "owe" those power brokers.

DONAHUE: We'll be right back. Larry Nichols is our special guest. 
Stay tuned.

                       (to be continued)

--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} Nichols' nervousness regarding the "California truck" that 
pulled into his driveway and sat there originates in the large 
number of apparent "suicides" and violent deaths of persons who 
have been connected with Bill Clinton. See, for example, "The 
Clinton Body Count" by Linda Thompson.
{2} "...who was hauling arms and supplies to the *Contras* during 
the early '80s..." *That*, in itself, was illegal. Putting aside 
for the moment the issue of bringing back cocaine, just smuggling 
arms to the *Contras* was a violation of the Boland amendment.
{3} "...Webster Hubbell..." On April 19, 1993, the day of the 
"final solution" to the problem of the Branch Davidian standoff, 
Webster Hubbell was the highest ranking official in the FBI 
operations center and remained in phone contact with ground 
commanders throughout the siege. [Source: "The Massacre of the 
Branch Davidians" by the Committee for Waco Justice. PO Box 
33037, Washington, DC  20033. Phones: (202) 986-1847, (202) 797- 
{4} The Arkansas-Chicago connection: Covered by Sherman Skolnick 
and included in a "Conspiracy for the Day -- Special Edition." 
Excerpts below:

    A big cover-up with congressman Dan Rostenkowski of 
    Chicago, arranged by the corrupt IRS, the Justice 
    Department, and the White House.


    The hundreds of millions of dollars per month from 
    cocaine and such was reportedly funneled through 
    Garfield Ridge Trust and Savings Bank of Chicago. The 
    bank has been owned and operated by congressman 
    Rostenkowski and his cronies, who have commented on the 
    bank's reported criminality for some 20 years now.


{5} "...Mr. Stevens..." To my recollection, it is spelled 
"Stevens" and not "Stephens." I refer to Jay Stevens, an 
apparently *real* prosecutor who was investigating ADFA, etc. and 
was pulled off the case. The "poetic justice" that Donahue 
mentions is that Stevens wound up investigating Stephens.