JOHN JUDGE: [...continues...] Another example would be that 
scientist I just mentioned, Walter Dorhnberger. He was a General, 
and he was responsible, essentially, for helping Werhner von 
Braun and the rocket program get whatever it wanted during the 
war. He was also responsible for being part of the administration 
of the Dora concentration camp, where Jews and other slave labor 
were worked to death building, at a tremendous pace, these V1 and 
V2 rockets that were being used against the civilian population 
in England. And there were heinous examples, besides the level of 
the labor and the forced labor, of public hangings and other 
types of war criminality there at Dora. And all these people 
nowadays either aren't asked... I mean, I think they've got one 
sentence in one piece of footage of Werhner von Braun, our 
fabulous rocket scientist, *talking* about Dora, saying some 
little piece about the conditions in the mines, you know, "... 
weren't that bad."

The fact is, that they were there. They were in an administrative 
capacity. But because after the war we wanted their expertise, we 
brought over a thousand of these scientists and their families. 
They were down in Huntsville, Alabama. I don't know if you've 
ever been there. The Chamber of Commerce is *named* after Werhner 
von Braun. It has big pictures of all these Nazis and their 
families with their hands up, taking their oath of American 
citizenship. And they're *proud* of the Nazis they brought in. I 
guess to get 2 on the moon it's worth 30 million dead, huh?

One of them built the Saturn 5 rocket, and only just recently got 
chased out of the country, much to the chagrin of Lyndon LaRouche 
and his crew who are fighting to get him back in. That's Walter 
Rudolph, who helped to get us to the moon. And without them, 
these Nazis, we wouldn't have done it. Of course they say they 
weren't "ardent" Nazis, whatever that means. {1}. They weren't 
involved in the war crimes. But they *were* there, they *were* in 
the position to do something, to speak out. And when asked they 
say, "Well if I'd spoken out, I would have been in the camps with 
the Jews myself. So what could I have done?"

And Dorhnberger was actually scheduled for indictment. The 
British prosecutor, Shawcross, said that he ought to hang. He was 
suspected of having worked, not only at Dora, but with the 
"Butcher" at Auschwitz, at the Auschwitz concentration camp. And 
instead, when Werhner von Braun got here to the United States, he 
said that he wouldn't do any work on our rockets unless we saved 
his mentor, his old friend, Walter Dorhnberger. So McCloy and 
Lucius Clay intervened on his behalf and he was brought directly 
to the United States. And first, he got a job in Huntsville, I 
think at Mussel Shoals, with NASA for a little bit. And then he 
got into a position that he kept for many, many years, where he 
headed up the helicopter systems division at Bell Aircraft in the 
Dallas/Houston area.

And it was in that position that he hired, during the 1950s and 
'60s, a top-ranking military intelligence agent by the name of 
Michael Paine. Michael Paine had a wife, Ruth Paine, and the two 
of them were very tight with the White Russian Solidarist 
community that lived in Dallas, many of these White Russians. And 
I say the history of these Nazis dates back to the time of the 
[Bolshevik] revolution. They're disaffected. Many of them worked 
with the CIA and other spy agencies, and Paine's family had 
connections with them. They went to a White Russian Orthodox 
church there, in Dallas, that was built with monies from the 
Cummins Catherwood Fund from Philadelphia. One of the blue-line 
families out in Philadelphia, Cummins Catherwood also funded the 
Cuban Aid Relief for the Bay of Pigs survivors, who were 
intimately involved in the assassination. And it was at that 
church that meetings happened, in the Christmas of the early 
'60s, between the Paines and the Oswalds. And it was the Paines 
that housed Marina Oswald, out in Irving, Texas. It was the 
Paines, along with Marina, who were some of the few people to 
testify to the idea that Oswald owned a rifle. It was Ruth Paine 
that got Oswald the job at the Book Depository, in October, and 
placed him, in part, as the patsy there. It was her friend, Roy 
Truly, who lied to the police, and said that they had taken a 
roll call and that Oswald was the only one missing from the 
building at the time they came in to find the so-called assassin. 
Even though everybody else looked in a different direction to 
where the noise had come from, up on the Grassy Knoll, the police 
ran to where they were supposed to, to the School Book 

So when you scratch the surface of how they set it up, who told 
the lies, who engineered the "patsying" of Oswald, you find these 
people with the connections to the International Fascists.

Werhner von Braun, knowing that the Russians, the Soviet troops, 
were going to come into Berlin, packed up shop at Dora, where he 
was building the rockets. He moved into Switzerland, leaving a 
trail for U.S. Intelligence, that had contacted him and other 
scientists months before in something called Operation Overcast. 
When he got up into that area, General Thurston, who was in 
charge of the military takeover for that sector, followed through 
with the arrangements to have him and several other scientists 
arrested and brought to the United States.

The person who actually effected the arrests, the physical 
arrests, of Werhner von Braun and the rocket scientists, the 
Paper Clip boys (they called it Project Paper Clip, to bring 
these people in) was the aide-de-camp to Thurston, a fellow named 
Clay Shaw.

Years later, Jim Garrison attempted to indict Clay Shaw for his 
involvement in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. And Clay 
Shaw, among other things, was on the board of directors of a firm 
called Permindex, which had offices at that time out of Canada. 
Where they were doing training, along with British Intelligence, 
of assassins all during World War II. It was work that involved, 
among other people, Ian Fleming. And in fact, Ian Fleming's 
character, James Bond, is a real person that lives in 
Philadelphia and is very close to the Cummins Catherwood family.

So whenever I began to look, I found these little nests of 
snakes. They intertwine, you know, they lock together, and their 
histories coincide. They send each other books and messages. They 
know each other. They get each other jobs.

Another person with connections to the Nazis, who was very 
instrumental in the assassination, is George DeMohrenschildt. He 
came from a reactionary family in Russia. His father was a top 
level employee of the Nobel oil family, which was like the 
Rockefellers here, prior to the [Bolshevik] revolution. They lost 
their fortune there. His brother, Von DeMohrenschildt, was jailed 
by the revolution for a period. When they got loose, they went to 
Germany. They helped the Fascists set up. Von went into the CIA- 
funded Tolstoy Foundation, which was a center for the White 
Russians during the whole period. And George DeMohrenschildt was 
an oil engineer. Among other places that he worked, and was close 
to, was Kerr-McGee (he was tight with Mr. Kerr), where Karen 
Silkwood was later killed by the Industrial Security Command 
guards. That Defense Industrial Security Command was running 
Mussel Shoals and Huntsville, Alabama, when the Nazis arrived.

You see, it just goes over and over, back and forth. You can find 
the connections if you start with the evidence. If you look to 
see who are these people, who do they know, how are they funded? 
And I saw it not only there, but throughout the other 
assassinations. Who were the top lieutenants in Jonestown? All 
were tied in with the Nazi money, with the International Fascism, 
the training, or the movements of the Nazis themselves.

I wanted you to see this before I quit. This is a documentary 
film made by a fellow named Bob Groden. He worked at *Life* 
magazine, in the photo department, when this film came from 
Dallas. This supposedly "homemade" film was made by a fellow 
named Abraham Zapruder, who was a bystander that "happened" to be 
standing near the Grassy Knoll filming the motorcade go by. And 
he caught, on this little piece of film, supposedly just by 
accident, the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Well the reason 
I'm making all these secondary comments is that we found out when 
Abraham Zapruder died that he's a White Russian. That he was from 
that same section there in Minsk, where George DeMohrenschildt 
and Marina's family came from. Marina's uncle was a high-ranking 
military officer in the NKVD, but her family was White Russian 
and anti-communist. And Gehlen infiltrated a lot of the KGB and 
Soviet military and intelligence structures during the war, and 
left agents in place. And you know, there's reason to believe 
that a number of people that were involved with Oswald, even in 
the Soviet Union, also tie to this International Fascism; *and 
not* to the idea that Oswald was some kind of a KGB agent. He was 
a *Naval Intelligence* operative. He had crypto clearance. He 
travelled around with the U-2. And he was a U.S. spy. He was sent 
to defect falsely to the Soviet Union.

                        (to be continued)

[Transcript of a talk given by John Judge at a one-day conference 
entitled "The Fourth Reich in America." A transcript of the 
entire conference, "The Fourth Reich in America," is available 
from Flatland Books, P.O. Box 2420, Fort Bragg, CA  95437.]

--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} "...they weren't 'ardent' Nazis, whatever that means." In 
other words, they were "just following orders."