JOHN JUDGE: [...continues...] And part of that involved moving 
those Nazis all over the world. Moving those Fascists. And not 
all the Germans were Fascists, and not all the Fascists were 
German. There were Japanese Fascists, if you remember. Some of 
them seem to be still in control today. There was a kind of 
veiled threat, recently, from the Prime Minister of Japan, that 
the forces that operated in World War II hadn't forgotten what 
the U.S. did to them; and that they were ready to rise back up if 
we didn't stop messing around on these trade issues for the 
international exchange. So the threat of them, you know, is still 
there. We talk a lot about Nuremberg, but much less about the 
Japanese war crime trials.

And it's known now, for instance, that when MacArthur's group 
went in, they found evidence of the POWs being experimented on 
with chemical and biological weapons by the Japanese. That they 
let all the scientists that did those war crimes off the hook, in 
exchange for the information that they could give them about how 
the weapons worked. So that, to them, was a fair trade.

Many of those scientists, many of the munitions and aerospace 
experts, many of the spies, (about 300 of them, in fact, under 
General Reinhard Gehlen, who had headed up Hitler's intelligence 
network for the east and the Soviet Union) were brought, from 
1943 up until even more recently in the present day, into the 
United States and into other countries around the world, South 
Africa included. There's quite a bit of collaboration between the 
South African government and World War II Fascists and Nazis.

But the Fascism was an indigenous problem in many, many 
countries. It didn't just exist in Nazi Germany. There were 
groups of Fascists that the Nazis were able to use in many 
countries as collaborationist governments.

And the real hidden history of World War II was, in fact, the 
*defeat* in many places of those forces by more progressive 
elements. By people who were, out of reasons of patriotism, or 
out of a more progressive political philosophy, bound and 
determined to take back some freedom. And that's a history that 
hasn't had as much play as the standard version of the Allied 
powers: these empires getting together to defeat these things, 
the actual struggles of the resistance to Fascism in the 
different countries and what role that played.

Assassination was always a *tool* for them; not only the mass 
death, but the individual death of the people that could make a 
difference, of the politicians that might make a change, of the 
people that stood in the way. And they perfected those 
techniques, and those techniques were brought here and used in 
the United States. So that when Mae Brussell did her work with 
the Warren Commission, and I spent several years reading the 
volumes and going into depth (and I went through about 300 cubic 
feet of material in the Archives). We *found* those people in the 
Commission Record. In key places. And I'll just talk to you about 
a few of them, so you can get a sense of who these people are 
that I'm talking about, and how they would play in.

One important one is an American, in fact, an American Fascist by 
the name of John J. McCloy. McCloy was a Rockefeller banking 
lawyer. I saw Marcel Ophuls who did some of the films on the 
Nuremburg situation, *The Sorrow and the Pity*, and *Memory of 
Justice*, at a public talk. And someone came up and asked him 
about McCloy, "Is he connected to the internationals?" And Ophuls 
said, "It would be more accurate to say the internationals are 
connected to him."

There was a very good article some years ago in *Harpers* about 
him, "Minister without Portfolio," that began to go into his 
background, all the way back to the 1920s when he was sent over 
to Germany to check about World War I sabotage activities, and 
ended up friends with some of Hitler's early cronies, and met 
Hitler, and stayed in that area for some time. He was connected 
to Sullivan and Cromwell, a Rockefeller banking firm that kept 
its German investments going even after the mass deaths of the 
Jews started in Germany. They had investments there that they 
didn't want to back off from.

And McCloy eventually got into a position in the government where 
he was the Under-Secretary of War. Somebody pointed out to me 
earlier that 1947-1948 is also when we changed from "Secretary of 
War," to "Secretary of Defense." {1}. And just that little word 
change is enough propaganda to make clear what's happening.

John J. McCloy, among other things during the period when he was 
Under-Secretary of War, was responsible, along with Earl Warren 
and a fellow named S. Dillon Reed, for the set-up of the Japanese 
concentration camps in the United States and the internment of 
Japanese, not German or white peoples, but Japanese people here. 
A lot of them lived out here in California, and you may know some 
of the history of the different concentration camps that were out 
here. People lost their property and their money. McCloy still 
speaks openly against any reparations for those people, and 
believes it was proper that he had them locked up and treated the 
way that they were during the war.

And it's interesting also that he worked on that with Earl 
Warren, who later shows up *along with McCloy* on the Warren 
Commission, to study the investigation of John Kennedy's death. 
He's one of the main members of the seven member Committee that 
helped to cover up the death of John F. Kennedy.

John J. McCloy also, in his position in the government, blocked 
efforts by the Jewish community here in America to have something 
done about the Nazi concentration camps. We knew they were there, 
we knew where they were. The Jews wanted the camps bombed, or 
they wanted the railroads going to the camps bombed, something, 
to stop the progress of the machinery of death in the Jewish 
community there. And his response at the time was that it would 
lead to "reparations against the Jews." One has to wonder what 
*they* could have been. But he refused to go along with those 

And then after the war, when we came in militarily, we set up a 
fellow named General Lucius Clay, who also cut deals with many of 
these top Nazi elements. And then Lucius Clay's military 
occupation government was replaced by a transitional, but civil, 
government of the Allied powers that would then lead eventually 
into the earliest postwar German government. And who oversaw that 
transition? McCloy, as the High Commissioner of Germany. In that 
position he reversed some of the few convictions that happened at 
the Nuremberg trials. Only eight war criminals were sentenced to 
death for all the destruction that was done in that war. Only 
eight. Some were given prison sentences and almost all of those 
were out within a few years, in large part because of McCloy's 

Of course, the trials were also undermined. One of the key people 
that undermined evidence and lost witnesses in that trial, 
working with the U.S. Army, was later to go on into the 
International Cross, International Rescue Division. And that was 
one of a number of agencies; the Vatican also had a line for 
this, that provided false identification to the Nazi war 
criminals to help them move internationally. And that 
International Rescue Committee is still dominated by CIA and 
right wing elements. But at that time they were providing the 
"Glockenspiel," the false identity cards. And then this fellow 
who moved into that position came to Texas. He was with a CIA 
front, a foundation called M. Anderson, for many, many years. He 
was the special liaison between the Texas police investigation 
and the Warren Commission investigation of John Kennedy's death. 
And in that capacity he blocked any effective local study of the 
death, or local news from getting to the Warren Commission.

And there were a number of years when he was with Anderson. We 
don't hear of him. And then he reappears as the "most trusted man 
in America," according to the press during the Watergate fiasco, 
in order to pardon Nixon. His name is Leon Jaworski.

O.K. So these people move throughout the history. So I'm trying 
to give you some feel, or some examples, of how these people 
move. McCloy pardons all these key Nazis. He pardons Krupp. He 
pardons Dorhnberger. And these other top people are off the hook 
because of his intervention. And then, not only do they come 
here, but he continues to function right up to the current day. I 
mean Reagan, at the time he went to Bitburg, had a White House 
ceremony for some of them. The German government came and gave 
these awards to John J. McCloy for his excellent work there in 
the period when we were supposed to be de-Nazifying Germany. And 
in fact, we were leading to the Nazification of the world, 
including America.

                        (to be continued)

[Transcript of a talk given by John Judge at a one-day conference 
entitled "The Fourth Reich in America." A transcript of the 
entire conference, "The Fourth Reich in America," is available 
from Flatland Books, P.O. Box 2420, Fort Bragg, CA  95437.]

--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} Like we are not going to war with Korea, we are going halfway 
around the world to *defend* ourselves from Korea. We never 
invade other countries; we are just going there to defend 
ourselves from them.