BRETT MC CABE: I would like to introduce now, a man who is very 
well known as an independent investigator and author. He's worked 
for 20 years to expose U.S. government involvement in mind 
control and murder. John Judge has also investigated the history 
of Fascism and political assassination and cover-up from Nazi 
Germany to John F. Kennedy to Jonestown, Guyana. He works to 
expose U.S. plans for concentration camps and genocide, here and 
abroad. He has had articles published in *Critique*, *Utne 
Reader*, *Madness Network News*, and *Overthrow*, and has spoken 
on these topics on radio, television, and in public forums since 
1968. So, without wasting any more time, I introduce to you, John 

JOHN JUDGE: Thank you. I started this work, really, in a sense, 
when I started to visit the Pentagon library. My parents, my 
mother and father, and my aunt who I lived with, worked as 
civilian employees in the Pentagon, and they used to take me in 
when I was a kid. And by the 6th grade, I had a 12th grade 
reading level, because I went to this private school, where they 
kind of pushed us. So they would drop me off in the library for 
the day, and I used to go through the stuff in there, because I 
was, you know, 10-11 years old, nobody seemed to care much what I 
was looking at. And I found it pretty interesting.

And one of the things I figured out back then, because I was 
interested in UFOs, was that they were really government spy 
craft, and not extraterrestrial craft from some other place. And 
for those of you who wanted them to be extraterrestrial, maybe a 
few of them were. But most of them were a Nazi secret weapon that 
was developed in the aerospace caves outside of Berlin, and seen 
by GIs when they came in, along with the jet engines. And it was 
a technology that was kept secret. Like William S. Burroughs 
says, "If this was the Middle Ages, and Magellen was an American, 
and we sailed around the planet and found out it was round 
instead of flat, we wouldn't tell anybody so we could attack from 
the rear."

So, I really began the research and the work there. And I like to 
research, I like to read. And I would go to these cocktail 
parties in my neighborhood around Christmas time, and the guy 
across the street sold all the weapons to Howard Hughes, and the 
next door neighbor was CIA, and two doors down was NASA, and 
those were my neighbors in Falls Church, VA when I grew up, and 
they would get a little stewed, and they'd talk about business.

And I thought it was all pretty strange, but I didn't have any 
reason to *question* that there was a secret government, because 
I *lived* with that secret government. And you get Bill Moyers 
now, and he tells you, "Well, there's a legitimate government, 
but from time to time, to do a certain job, they hire a rather 
unseemly crew, and sometimes they get a little out of control and 
make trouble."

I'd suggest it's the other way around: that the *real* government 
are the people that are doing the killing, and that they hire the 
people in the three piece suits to stand up and make you think 
you've got a democracy in front of you. Don't you think that's 
what it is?

See, because the real government kills people, and that's part of 
how it stays in power. Now, if you go back to the period at the 
end of the Weimar Republic, in the late '20s and the early '30s, 
before Hitler rose to power, you'll find a pattern of political 

It's depicted, interestingly, in Ingmar Bergman's probably least 
distributed film, *The Serpent's Egg*. And, the people that begin 
to die are the labor leaders, the political activists, the 
musicians. The people who might have an effective public voice, 
and might stand against the Fascism, begin to die in large 
numbers. And the German police admitted that these were political 
assassinations. But they said they couldn't solve them. They 
couldn't make the historical link to what was happening, or they 
could but were paid not to, like many of the investigations that 
we have now in this country: They couldn't solve those murders.

They couldn't hook them to the most obvious suspects, which were 
the members of the *Freikorps* from World War I: the trained and 
paid assassins from that period, who were helping to pave the way 
for Hitler, and for the end of the political opposition there. 
And there was plenty of it. I mean there was quite a bit of 
socialist/communist organizing in that period. Marx's vision of 
the world was that the first countries to make the change would 
be these industrialized countries, like Germany, and so most of 
the people that were continuing the Bolshevik revolution in those 
years move foreward with that.

The idea of the political assassinations and their origins really 
go back to 1918. Not that no one was killed earlier; I certainly 
don't suggest that. But in terms of what we're dealing with in 
the current period, most of this is a reaction to that 
revolution, to that change of power there in Russia, and in some 
of the other countries, in that period of time, in the early 

And in response to that there were monarchists, there were 
industrialists, there were people that owned a tremendous amount 
of wealth, both here in the United States and in the 
industrialized countries in Europe, who had a vested interest in 
reversing that. Just as Reagan seems so focused on changing the 
situation in Nicaragua, there were people then who had very 
definite reasons not to want that kind of social change (that 
would redistribute wealth, or privilege, or power, to the extent 
that it did, or was able to) to happen where they were. They 
wanted to maintain their privileges.

And they had societies, they had groups that they formed. One of 
them was the Solidarists, made up of a link between the emerging 
Fascists and the neo-Nazis. Another core of reactionaries existed 
within the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church: Opus Dei, "The 
Work of God," was newly emerging on that scale. And then another 
group that had been known as the Knights Hospitaliers, that were 
the military arm of the Church during the Crusades, who became 
the Knights of Malta. And these were lay aristocracies within the 
Church. People that still believed that there shouldn't have been 
a Counter-Reformation, that thought that the Inquisition should 
have continued. People that used flagellation and hair shirts for 
prayer. People sort of like the Christian Right {1} that we 
talked about earlier today, with a few more excesses, and a lot 
more money.

And, it was in the interests of these people to have stories 
about visions of the Virgin Mary coming, to Fatima, in the early 
1900s and telling them that God was against communism, so that 
the Church would be against communism, and take up that struggle. 

Elements of the state, and elements of the rich, and the 
monarchies that still existed, formed a bond of interest. And, in 
large part, one of the motivating people who went around and 
collected their monies and their energies, in order to reverse 
the revolutionary change in Russia, was Herbert Hoover, who spent 
actually more time in Europe than he did in the United States. He 
was also later responsible for the formation of the ideas that 
led to the National Security Council and the National Security 

And part of what happened was that the Romanoff treasury, which 
was stolen and secreted out of the country, was then turned 
around along with money collected by Hoover and these monarchists 
and others to finance the rearmament of Germany, secretly, from 
1918 to 1932. And it's that rearmament that then gave them the 
impetus to set up the drive to essentially *get back* the Soviet 
Union. And only because that drive was defeated at tremendous 
human cost -- about 20 million lives in Russia and those 
countries, some of the worst killing went on there, and the 
civilians also, but tremendous cost -- they were militarily 
stopped in 1943.

And, at that point, a different position was taken by some of the 
Allied countries. There were divisions within the class as to how 
much money should have been expended on these Fascists. There 
were others there who supported them, but it was time to regroup. 
It was time to back off a little, to try to get what they had 
together. The resources were more or less expended in the effort 
to set up a permanent war economy, which Charles Wilson from 
General Electric talked about. And to go into what they called 
the "Cold War," or "low intensity warfare," and genocide against 
Third World people, while they continued to build the empire and 
maintain the hegemony. And to re-establish the Fourth Reich, the 
Fascism, not only here in the United States but throughout the 
world. {3}.

                        (to be continued)

[Transcript of a talk given by John Judge at a one-day conference 
entitled "The Fourth Reich in America." A transcript of the 
entire conference, "The Fourth Reich in America," is available 
from Flatland Books, P.O. Box 2420, Fort Bragg, CA  95437.]

--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} If you belong to the "Christian Right," I apologize for the 
possible "Christian bashing" in Judge's statement. Overall, his 
talk is worthwhile so I am posting it.
{2} Well, the Church is obviously going to be against communism, 
because communism declares that religion is the "opiate of the 
masses." So Judge may be wrong here about any Fatima fakery.
{3} Given that the western powers at first financed the Nazis, it 
seems strange that we went to war against them. A recent issue of 
*The Nation* (ca. June 1994) indicated that D-Day and our 
subsequent battle against the Nazis on the western front was more 
about grabbing territory that the Russians might otherwise get 
than it was about fighting Nazism, *per se*.