The Grove of Avalon

   The Grove is one of a pair of unique Chat-rooms run for a while on the PC-Link system by some pagan interest/philosophy interested people to expand the general consiousness of pagans and non-pagans. The room is free-form, with users using handle names to retain animinity. The following is a transcript of a single evening recorded by 'Ravensong' the room host for the evening.



Unnefer   : transcend the false mind-unite with the absolute-become god

Ravensong : Ah, then you hold the principle that together we are the sum of 
            God/Goddess?

Unnefer   : yes

Unnefer   : god/goddes/not god/goddess all at the same time

Ravensong : INteresting, we are both one and not one?

GaryG59   : what's on the fire?

Unnefer   : yes and not one or not not one

Ravensong : ...We are discusing our divinity, or lack of understanding of 
            it....

Unnefer   : this limited language is of no use to describe it

Unnefer   : humanity as it is, is lost

Ravensong : But the principles you are presenting do project beyond the words 
            we use

GaryG59   : from the papers i dont think we have any divinity.

Ravensong : Lost?

Unnefer   : follow your true will-become a god

Ravensong : But if I was God/Goddess I'd get bored in the long run...thats 
            why this game called life!

Ravensong : Gary, you don't see the forest becuiase of the Billboard....

Unnefer   : the "game" is to become god/goddess by realising it!

GaryG59   : define true will.

Ravensong : But is winning the game all its cracked up to be?

Unnefer   : the absolute action you must take=will

Unnefer   : destiny???

Ravensong : True Will? We all have the will to choose whgat we do....

Unnefer   : yes, but there is only one action that maintains the balace of 
            power

Ravensong : ...wether we decided to do it in this lifetime or the one before

GaryG59   : how can you become a God/

Unnefer   : by realising your true will

Ravensong : HOw do you know you're not already one Gary?

Unnefer   : no one can know

Unnefer   : there is no knowing

Ravensong : But if True will is all that is in question, what if my will is 
            to play at life?

Unnefer   : only doing-or a state of becoming

GaryG59   : the christian God hates competition.

Ravensong : Perspective : Use it or lose it.

Unnefer   : then do it ravensong!

Unnefer   : the christian god is blood thirsty and evil

Ravensong : Hello Cleo, welcome to Metaphysics 101....where we ask are you a 
            God(dess)?

Unnefer   : lol

Ravensong : The Christian god is not what Christians portray him to be...

CLEO71    : TOO DEEP FOR ME

Ravensong : ...they refuse to read their own holy writs with any depoth...

GaryG59   : the old testament or the new??

Unnefer   : it/he has been distorted from the tru teachings

Ravensong : The new Testament says that the Christian god is a god of Love, 
            yes?

Unnefer   : jesus christ was a buddha-no doubt

GaryG59   : yes

Ravensong : Hello Chris...welcome to the Grove, where Eris laughs at us 
            all...

Unnefer   : christian god = evil-programming of ideology into the youth

Ravensong : And Jesus was also a person who wanted to develop true 
            Communisim....

Unnefer   : utopian communism

Ravensong : ..not the false version that Russia or China developed....

Ravensong : exactly

Ravensong : Gary, what do you believe in?

Unnefer   : russia/china=distorted(BY FAR) OF MARX

Unnefer   : who is ERIS? that discordian?? deity?

Ravensong : ...Even Marx didn't have it quite right....

Unnefer   : yes he was off a bit

GaryG59   : if i were a god i think that i would know it

Ravensong : Hello Dick & Dan...welcome to the grove have a seat by our 
            fire....

DAN LAU PA: OK

Unnefer   : I doubt it, becuase if you did you woulndt call yourself YOU!

Ravensong : Gary, Why?

DAN LAU PA: HI ALL

Unnefer   : there is no you, that is an invention of the false mind/ego

Ravensong : a round of ale for all:    [(_) [(_)  [(_) [(_) [(_)

GaryG59   : what would i call myself?

Unnefer   : cant be explained in words

Unnefer   : you woulndt even conceive of a you

Ravensong : Why would you need to label yourself?

Unnefer   : only unity?or lack of it-parodox!

Unnefer   : there is no you to label!

GaryG59   : what of objective reality?

Ravensong : Reality is a playground!

Ravensong : ...and we are all children upon it!

Unnefer   : there isnt any, only a participator/creator of reality

Unnefer   : raven- who is Eris?

Unnefer   : wiccan deity?

GaryG59   : we create our own reality????

Unnefer   : yes!!!!!!!!!

Ravensong : Eris is the ancient greek Goddess/Personification of Chaos and 
            Strife....

Unnefer   : by acting acording to your true will, then you would be a god!

Ravensong : Actually, I believe we each are a seperate individual reality...

Ravensong : that interaccts with other realities...

Unnefer   : causing change to occur in conformity to WIL!!!!

Unnefer   : will atgh!

Ravensong : GGreetings Hotelcal...welcome to the Grove where you can stiull 
            speak you mind if you

Unnefer   : ive never heard of eris before

Ravensong : can prove that you are real and have one....

Hotelcal  : thankyou

GaryG59   : the reality here, is as cold as hell

Ravensong : here have an ale     [(_)

Unnefer   : no there is nothing...

Unnefer   : hell is the mind

Ravensong : The weather here is cold too its 25 after being 65 yesterday!

Unnefer   : satan=the false mind/ego

Unnefer   : raven you must live on the east coast then?

Ravensong : The term Satan is simply a personification then?

GaryG59   : is satan real??

Ravensong : Yes, I'm in MASS

Unnefer   : a symbol

Unnefer   : 73 here yester...

GaryG59   : anywhere near Salam?

Ravensong : Greetings Kitaiyla...

KITAIYLA  : good eve

Unnefer   : gary?

GaryG59   : what?

KITAIYLA  : Ravensong....are you talking about the WLPA?

Unnefer   : well raven do you understand my "reality trip" now???:)

Ravensong : Satan is a creation of a church that needed an advesary figure to 
            keep its populance

Ravensong : under control,

Unnefer   : yes!!!but more a symbol of the false mind/ego

Ravensong : WLPA?

Ravensong : Yes, I understand what you're saying, Unnefer...you present a 
            diffrent variation

KITAIYLA  : Satan is a perversion of the Horned One, not a creation of the 
            church

GaryG59   : no horns or pointy tail?

Ravensong : on what Richard Bach did, a little less optimistic.

Unnefer   : the ancient one

Unnefer   : christ-drug yum yum

Ravensong : The Horned god is an Archetype, a creation of our group mind that 
            is mankind'

Unnefer   : i'm from the non-reality-unity-absolute school

GaryG59   : WICCA?

Ravensong : Jung said there were many ARchetype, each with a purpose in our 
            created realities

Unnefer   : jung was right on track

Ravensong : WIcca is one set of beliefs, forged to achieve a set of goals by 
            a group of

Unnefer   : commentary on the Tibetan book of the Dead was great!-Jung

Ravensong : individual 'universes'

Unnefer   : wicca is not mu cup of tea. although it is interesting

Ravensong : Jungs only flaw was his own prejudices...they caused his 
            failure...

GaryG59   : JUNG was a little strange

Ravensong : The Wiccan philosophy is a good solid means to lkearn and build 
            ones own knowledge

Ravensong : of ones self-universe.

Unnefer   : yes i agree- and freud also(prejudices)

Ravensong : Wicca is not the only path, it is one of many.

Ravensong : Freud, like Newton, was flawed by his means of observation.

KITAIYLA  : Snowy owl says to inform the group that he will be in the room 
            shortly...

Unnefer   : my path is ALL paths-they all go to the same place

GaryG59   : rs what path is your?

Ravensong : Snowy is always welcome

Ravensong : Thanks Kitayiyla...I've been fine, but strapped money wiuse

Ravensong : My path is not Wiccan, though I spent time there as my 
            foundation, it is mearly mine

ScottD32  : Avalon N.J.

Ravensong : Wicca helps one to begin to open ones mind to the possibilities 
            of ones universe

Unnefer   : there is only one path(realy)

Ravensong : Greetings scott welcome unto the Grove...

Unnefer   : many universes-or non-universes

Ravensong : There are many paths that lead to the same road

Unnefer   : yes that is what i was saying

Ravensong : ...we all seek the road.

Crag Hack : Goodevening, Ravensong!

GaryG59   : no fear of HELL?

Ravensong : Hello Crag, welcome

ScottD32  : Jesis the only way!!

Unnefer   : the road is a difficult one

KITAIYLA  : there is no hell

Ravensong : Greetings all!

ScottD32  : sorry Jesus

Unnefer   : christ-drug - progarmming and ideology

Ravensong : Scott, if you mean Jesus, perhaps for you his teachings are the 
            only path.

BoingoVH2 : fare well all. just stopping by again.

ScottD32  : Jesus has defeated satin

Ravensong : Some of us must create our own path, others can follow those 
            already forged

Unnefer   : yes rs there is only each persons will

Ravensong : Scott..I'm not impressed, defeqating cloth is easy!

Ravensong : (joke)

Snowy Owl1: 

Unnefer   : satan is a symbol for much more than you may or may not know

KITAIYLA  : GREETINGS, SNOW!!!!!!!!

Crag Hack : Hi Snowy!

Ravensong : Hail Snowy! Welcome to the Realm of Truth and Illusion 
            personified!

Snowy Owl1: dont know Him personally.

BoingoVH2 : hi owl!

Snowy Owl1: gee, HI EVERYBODY!

BoingoVH2 : i'm just leaving.

Snowy Owl1: [i like feeling popular  :D  ]

Crag Hack : Satan is a satan is a symbol amoung many symbols that are 
            supposed to mean evil

Ravensong : By BOING!

Snowy Owl1: not cause i got here, i hope.

Ravensong : What is evil?

ScottD32  : I'm talking real Christ, what do you have

Crag Hack : Although, I don't believe in evil

Unnefer   : evil is relative to ones will

GaryG59   : fried snowy owl YUM!

Snowy Owl1: "Satan is a satan is a..."   there's a song in that 
            Somewhere.....

Snowy Owl1: yum?

BoingoVH2 : no, i just won an hour in the auditorium so i'm leaving.

Unnefer   : evil=

KITAIYLA  : ?

Ravensong : Scott, Jesus was a good teacher for his culture...its just that 
            culture is no longer

Unnefer   : argh!

Ravensong : predominant

Snowy Owl1: "real Christ"  ??   is there a fake one?

BoingoVH2 : door prize!

Ravensong : Hello HHS!

Unnefer   : christ-drug

Snowy Owl1: Hah!!!!  Look again, Raven.

Crag Hack : I don't believe in an evil being or a good being.  I thinks good 
            and evil are the same thing

HHS151    : HELLO

Unnefer   : all is one one is all

Ravensong : HHS...loweR THY caps!

Crag Hack : Balance is the key

ScottD32  : satan is the deciever

Unnefer   : the TAO

Snowy Owl1: Oh, for certain there is "good" and "evil"  and we all know what 
            it is, in ourselves.

Unnefer   : satan= the false mind/ego

KITAIYLA  : :)

Ravensong : :)

Crag Hack : Satan dosen't exist, excpet when created to control the masses by 
            fear

BoingoVH2 : sounds more like the "golden mean"

Unnefer   : it is relative

Snowy Owl1: "Satan" is the...well..."prosecuting attorney" of the Hebrew 
            belief.

Ravensong : Scott...how much have you read of Religions?

Snowy Owl1: makes sure no one makes it into Heaven that doesnt deserve it.

Unnefer   : there are many satans in hebrew myth

ScottD32  : Jesus LOVES you ALL!!

BoingoVH2 : bye.

Crag Hack : It's the old party line.  "If you don't go to church every 
            sunday, then your going to hell"

Snowy Owl1: [have you considered my servant Job??]

Unnefer   : heaven is in the true mind

Snowy Owl1: good to hear, scott, could use all the help i can get

Crag Hack : Or maybe, "If you don't comb hair right, your going to hell"

Unnefer   : church=programming and lies

Snowy Owl1: i see, unn, that must be why i dont have it....

ScottD32  : I don't need to look any further

Ravensong : Don't we all want to be loved, Scott?

Unnefer   : you are in hell

Snowy Owl1: <--- Lacking "True Mind"   

Ravensong : Scott, have you really ever even read your Bible?

Crag Hack : But the same also works in resverse.  "If you don't worship 
            satan, I shall destroy you"

ScottD32  : I have found the cure for evil

ScottD32  : Daily

Snowy Owl1: [Raven, displaying "knowledge snobbery"  strikes again....]

GaryG59   : what?

Crag Hack : I think both sides of the house, (Christ & Satan) are for the 
            birds.

Snowy Owl1: but what if one is not concerned by evil?

Unnefer   : evil is good good is goood evil is evil

Crag Hack : They were created to confuse and to control!

Unnefer   : yes!

Ravensong : Gretings, GreyLady stepping in for a few...

Ravensong : Hello Snowy love....

Snowy Owl1: Unnefer, do you work for the government, by any chance?

ScottD32  : What do you know about it raven

Unnefer   : i work for reality

Crag Hack : Hitle did the same thing, he just called it Nazi.  Stalin also 
            did it, So did we

Crag Hack : Except we call it law

KITAIYLA  : greetings, Greylady....

Unnefer   : never get to the point-but got alot to say!

Ravensong : Unnefer, are you speaking on a Junian basis or are you a 
            proponent of Sirley McClaine?

KITAIYLA  : :)

Crag Hack : God should be like the air, natural.  You should have work toward 
            God

Unnefer   : forget new age that is dead

ScottD32  : Those without the spirit

Snowy Owl1: that's "Jungian" 

GaryG59   : shirley'got nice leggs

Snowy Owl1: how about the Goddess, Crag?

Crag Hack : I mean you shouldn't have to work toward God!  (Pardon me)  :)

Ravensong : thank Snowy, I'm dyslexic you know

ScottD32  : do not know the things of God

Unnefer   : i speak as i will

Crag Hack : God/Goddess, it's the same thing.  Male.female gender is a human 
            thing.

Ravensong : I can't spell

Snowy Owl1: feel free.

Unnefer   : god cannot be defined

Crag Hack : It's better for us to understand if we refer to God as God or 
            Goddess

ScottD32  : Creator

Snowy Owl1: yes, but duality is universal, so some basis for male/female must 
            exist...

Unnefer   : intellect is the destructor

Ravensong : Crag, why?

Unnefer   : unity is universe

Crag Hack : God, is you.  And that plant, and this computer, and so , on, on

Unnefer   : and non-unity is universe

GaryG59   : manitou?

Snowy Owl1: so is Goddess, Crag..   :)

Crag Hack : We also think that we are everything!  That Earth is the center!  
            We have surprise coming soon!

Unnefer   : god is the all and the nothing

Ravensong : Unnefer, that's a similar clncept to the school of Greek thought 
            that stated all is one

ScottD32  : For God so loved the world, that he sent his only son

Ravensong : nothing is seperate

Crag Hack : Snowy, If you pefer Goddess, I use the word Goddess

Snowy Owl1: Ahhh, having trouble with Secular Humanism lately, Crag?

Crag Hack : How can God have a son, if he's not human

Unnefer   : I like the eastern philosophies better!

Crag Hack : lol, snowy

Snowy Owl1: :)

KlemClone : simple, he used the yellow pages

ScottD32  : not to condemn the world, but to save it through him

Snowy Owl1: i know quite a bit about them, Unnefer, please go ahead.

GaryG59   : turn to hymm 312 please

Unnefer   : my snowy arent you opinionated! :)

Ravensong : but Unnefer, you are supporting the Greek philosphies with your 
            words...not the eastern

Crag Hack : Scott, you and the rock have the same heart beat, but is yours as 
            peaceful as the rock's?

Unnefer   : unity is the absolute-i am a buddhist

Snowy Owl1: opinionated?  of course!  there is no such thing as a "pure fact" 
            so why bother?

ScottD32  : Yes

Snowy Owl1: Raven, please dont be so Intellectually Snobbish....it isnt 
            becoming.

Ravensong : but you sound greek

Unnefer   : yes snowy i agree, not take it so seriously! :)

GaryG59   : shave your head?

Ravensong : I'm not Raven...

Snowy Owl1: Telling someone they are wrong is not establish rapport, it is 
            useless argument.

Crag Hack : Folks, before we go on, lets announce ourselfs.  If we call 
            oursefls something, what is it?

Ravensong : remember?

ScottD32  : The peace that passes all understanding

Unnefer   : no i dont shave my head!

Snowy Owl1: [yes, i know....]

GaryG59   : saffron robes?

Snowy Owl1: I've always thought it must be terribly frustrating to be Right, 
            Scott.  Is it?

Ravensong : Snowy, just trying to identify the style of thought, not correct 
            someone - sorry if I came off

Ravensong : wrong!

Unnefer   : no! i am not a monk!

Crag Hack : Scott, how do you know your right?

ScottD32  : Jesus is right

Unnefer   : jesus is dead!

Crag Hack : How do you know Jesus is right?

GaryG59   : sufi?

ScottD32  : Jesus is alive

Crag Hack : Unnefer, don't insult him.  He has a right

Snowy Owl1: Then it must be terribly frustrating for you that not everyone 
            will simply recognize that fact.

Unnefer   : that is an islamic sect gary!

Ravensong : If you beleive he lives in your heart, Scott, then he does...

ScottD32  : He gave me his spirit

Unnefer   : right is relative to the individuals will

Crag Hack : So true Ravensong.  

Snowy Owl1: I feel sorry for you.  It is so hard to maintain a conversation 
            with us "wrong" people.

Ravensong : Each person's belief is what they wish it to be, each person's 
            universe is what they make it

Snowy Owl1: yes, and...

GaryG59   : whirling dervish?

Crag Hack : Scott, I happy for you.  I believe differently.  But I think 
            we'll go to the same place

ScottD32  : Whom do you believe Raven??

KlemClone : "When the truth of your life is too terrible, you revert to a 
            religion based on simple lies." 

Crag Hack : Which religion are you talking about KlemClone?

ScottD32  : Only one way

Ravensong : Scott, I am Raven's roommate, and I believe what my heart tells 
            me to be true...

Snowy Owl1: "Dimsie doats and dosie doats, and little lambsy divy"

ScottD32  : JESUS!!

Ravensong : in whatever language it needs to express itself

KITAIYLA  : lol

Crag Hack : Scott, what happens if your wrong?

KITAIYLA  : ?

Ravensong : Scott, the basis for peace is understanding - this is hare to 
            attain with a closed mind

Snowy Owl1: Scott, calm down....you must accept that you can never "convert" 
            here, only discuss.

ScottD32  : Not a chance

Ravensong : allow other's their own opinions and their own beliefs

Snowy Owl1: whoops!  time for party hats!

KITAIYLA  : many others have been wrong..........

Snowy Owl1: *****  to Crag

Ravensong : I know my own by scent, does He work that way?

Unnefer   : the myth or the reality of these fine people

ScottD32  : Jesus Christ

Greylord  : :)

Ravensong : AH that holiday...

KITAIYLA  : jesus WHO???????

Unnefer   : ????

Ravensong : I forget too

Snowy Owl1: is it Lugh?  Are we in Lugh?

Unnefer   : christ

KITAIYLA  : oooooooooh....him

ScottD32  : Christ

Snowy Owl1: "Christ" is a title, people.

Snowy Owl1: Jesus is the name.

Greylord  : Scott...where did J.C. instruct you to "ram" Him down the throat 
            of others?

KITAIYLA  : :)

Ravensong : Snowy, not yet to your last IM question

Unnefer   : how many jesuses do you know anyway?

KITAIYLA  : lol

Greylord  : :)

ScottD32  : The spirit

Crag Hack : Any body take "The Course in Miracles"

Greylord  : Oh....Can you SHOW me that?

KlemClone : Which Jesus (Easu). The Jesus of Mark? Luke? John? Paul? (Seth, I 
            hope not Paul!)

Ravensong : "I don't care if it rains or freezes..."

Snowy Owl1: well, "ravensong" everybody around here has been saying 
            it...shocked me out of 10 year of life.

Unnefer   : oh i see the different accounts of jesus...

ScottD32  : Gods only Son!!

Snowy Owl1: "....long as I have my plastic Jesus...."

Unnefer   : ahhhh

Crag Hack : The Course in Miracles is a course you can take that teaches you 
            about the universe

Greylord  : Klem....Jesus Metzgold...my grocer..

Unnefer   : man is gods son

Greylord  : :)

Crag Hack : and how to make miracles

KITAIYLA  : which god?

Unnefer   : son is gods man

Ravensong : Sorry Snowy, it's a proposel as of yet, where were you last night 
            anyway?

ScottD32  : Man is Gods creation

KITAIYLA  : lol

Unnefer   : man made god in HIS image

KlemClone : God's been around... he could have more than one (and NO, I'm not 
            throwing nasty sexual inuendo)

KITAIYLA  : amen

Snowy Owl1: Talking to Kit, late at night.  I TRIED to find you.

Greylord  : Well said Un...

Greylord  : :)

Crag Hack : Actually, God is mans creation.  God never called himself "God"

Greylord  : Least he TRIES to....

Greylord  : :)

Ravensong : god is an anomaly in quantum physics, actually

ScottD32  : God is

Unnefer   : :)

Snowy Owl1: MAY I ASK EVERYONE A QUESTION???

KITAIYLA  : ???????

Greylord  : Sure..

Ravensong : Snowy, I am sorry, really

Crag Hack : Ravensong, ever read any Robert Heinlien?

Ravensong : yes

Snowy Owl1: is there ACTUALLY any point to this discussion besides showing 
            how much we know about our 

Snowy Owl1: Religions?

Tangent   : Hi all :)

KITAIYLA  : no

Greylord  : Hi Tan-baby...

KlemClone : Good point, Ravensong, is the cat in the box dead, or confused?

Ravensong : Greetings Tangent

JammerSAC : no snowy

Unnefer   : the ultimate quantum reality is god????? no!

Tangent   : Hi Grey :D

LOGAN 21  : Why  are you so against God Luncefer

Snowy Owl1: and pretending we know enough about those of others to judge?

Ravensong : un-dead!

Crag Hack : The Number of The Beast, and Stranger in a Strange Land!!!!

Tangent   : Hiya Raven ;)

Ravensong : yes

Unnefer   : man is god or god is man?!

Snowy Owl1: "Popping the Quiff"  is the term... if i recall.

Unnefer   : ha!

KlemClone : Ah, I saw that movie, must have missed the cat, though!

Greylord  : Snowy....I am a "Bailey-ite"...

ScottD32  : God judges

KITAIYLA  : god is man

Greylord  : :)

Ravensong : it's Greylady actually, but Raven's trying to get the keyboard 
            back...

Unnefer   : right!

Snowy Owl1: BOB KNOWS ALL, SEES ALL, TELLS LESS.

Crag Hack : I judge!  And since I judge, (and you do too) I and you are God?  
            :)

Ravensong : kaos kat Klem...

KITAIYLA  : and then again............

Unnefer   : actualy a bit if both!

Ravensong : Snowy LOL

Snowy Owl1: *......Church Of The Subgenius....*

KlemClone : Never admit your TRUE NAME... there's a story about that, 
            somewhere...

Snowy Owl1: :)

Crag Hack : I know what you don't!  I know what you won't!  I know it all!  I 
            know it all!!!

KITAIYLA  : :)

JammerSAC : Thanks for the interesting but constantly endless arguement.  Its 
            like politics.

Unnefer   : what all?

Greylord  : <---  First Church of the Immaculate Orgasm...

Ravensong : I know the rest Crag!!!!!

Greylord  : :)

Crag Hack : lol, GreyLord

KITAIYLA  : lol

Snowy Owl1: Klem, it comes to us from the ceremonial tradition of Magick, 
            they believed that names bound

Unnefer   : lol at greylord

Snowy Owl1: the creature they were associated with.

Ravensong : Is an immaculate conception a new word for safe sex?

Crag Hack : Actually Ravensong, I only know half of everything, the rest I 
            make up!  :)

Snowy Owl1: |||||throwing Beer Nuts at Ravensong|||||||

Crag Hack : lol

Unnefer   : immaculate DECEPTION!

ScottD32  : Jesus LOVES YOU!!!

Ravensong : or is it a claen mind?

Greylord  : Safe sex = mast********!

Greylord  : :)

Crag Hack : That was low Ravensong!  Good!  But a cheap shot!   :)

Snowy Owl1: yes yes yes yes YES!  Scott..so you have told us over and over 
            and over and over and over.

Unnefer   : your only right if i agree with you

Greylord  : Scott...I think He is getting a little upset with you though!

KITAIYLA  : give it a break, Scott

JasonT9   : interesting concept

Ravensong : Scott, tell him I love him too if he's gonna be so insistant

Greylord  : :)

Ravensong : you seem to be his main spokesman

Snowy Owl1: What an utterly Plebian comment, Unnefer.

ScottD32  : Never

Ravensong : or are you self-appointed?

Greylord  : LOL

Unnefer   : ha!

KITAIYLA  : lol

Crag Hack : Well folks, I must now tell, I am God!  And I've been watching 
            thoose who don't follow my WORD!

KITAIYLA  : how are you tonight,Lee?

Greylord  : So....how about them Mets???

Snowy Owl1: well, getting time to fly... Im going to steal Kit away from you 
            and leave you all holding...

Greylord  : :)

Unnefer   : my my do i love reality

Ravensong : League of Pushy Preachers...Self Appointed Chapter Head....

Snowy Owl1: your various philisophical wangers!    *laugh*  have fun!

KITAIYLA  : lol

Greylord  : :)

ScottD32  : He does love you Ravensong, come to him

Crag Hack : lol

KlemClone : I must say this is the most interesting room I've been in this 
            evening; and imagine that...

KlemClone : GOD's here too!

Ravensong : Snowy, I'll be on as myself a bit later, will you be around?

Unnefer   : there is no jesus here

ScottD32  : You are right Clone

Ravensong : Klem.....I LIKE YOU!!!!!!!

Crag Hack : Well, scott, believe what you will.  But, please, God never said 
            to force him upon anyone

KITAIYLA  : no, raven...he is off for the evening

Greylord  : Scott...You show me in the Bible where it says to force others to 
            Jesus and I'll come..

Unnefer   : the christian god is corrupt and evil-he restricts ones will

Crag Hack : I thought you where supposed to come to God of your own free 
            will.

Greylord  : Crag...so it says.

Greylord  : Scott thinks differently.

ScottD32  : Jesus Wants us to share the Gospel 

Unnefer   : the collective (god/christ) cant experience my consciousness!

Tangent   : brb

Greylord  : Share is not "ram"

KlemClone : Free will is YHVH's curse on us all

Ravensong : Share, not scream Scott

Greysoul  : hail all....

ScottD32  : It is in the Bible

Greylord  : Hail Soul...

Crag Hack : Unnfer, you just as bad!  How can you say scott's religion is 
            evil!

Greysoul  : brb.........reading e-mail

Unnefer   : crag you are right i am!

Crag Hack : I have no love for the Christain church, be really.  FREEDOM DOES 
            EXIST!!!!!

Greylord  : Scott...YOUR way is not in the Bible.

ScottD32  : This is not screaming

Greysoul  : bak

Crag Hack : Remember folks, Freedom!!!!

ScottD32  : Gods way

Unnefer   : evil is the restriction of free will

Greysoul  : hail raven

Crag Hack : evil does't exist

Ravensong : Everyone, BACK TO RAVENSONG FOR A WHILE - GREYLADY WILL BE ON IN 
            20 MIN OR A FEW LESS...

Ravensong : BYE

Greylord  : Jesus spoke only to those who WANTED to listen...you try to make 
            people hear you.

KlemClone : Freedom for what? Freedom from what? Freedom is like salvation, 
            it requires a counterpoint.

Ravensong : Scott, what is Gods way?

Unnefer   : feedom from the collective

Greysoul  : hail raven

Ravensong : Greetings all...I'm back to my keyboard...have been watching the 
            incoming....

Unnefer   : freedom arg!

Greylord  : :)

Crag Hack : Freedom from anything you chose to be free from!

Ravensong : Freedom to chose, Scott?

KlemClone : Argv? Argc?

ScottD32  : To believe in His Son and be saved

Ravensong : Then why do you insist that we chose your way?

Greysoul  : i have a question

Unnefer   : free from the psuedo religions

Greylord  : Soul???

Greysoul  : what are you talking about

Crag Hack : Freedom from everything!  Balance is the key

ScottD32  : Jesus's way

Ravensong : Can't we chjoose our own way?

Greylord  : Scott is talking Jesus...

Unnefer   : i agree balance is the key!

KlemClone : Scott is right, belief is the heart of it. If you believe you're 
            bad, you may well burn in hell

Ravensong : Jesus only showed one path of many to the road

ScottD32  : The wages of sin is death

Crag Hack : Unnefer, I can't believe it, we agree!  :)

Greylord  : Raven....very well said.

Ravensong : Scott...what is sin?

Crag Hack : what's sin?  Boy have I sined, and I'm still here   :)

Ravensong : Isn't it a concept of relativity?

Ravensong : Thank you M'Lord....

VictorA6  : hello to ya..

Unnefer   : yes! we do that is my whole philosophy-balance!

ScottD32  : The gift from God is life everlasting

Greylord  : Hiya' Vic...

KlemClone : let's not drag Einstein back from the grave...

Ravensong : Crag, sinned in whoose mind?

Greysoul  : hial victor

ScottD32  : Through Jesus

Unnefer   : i am god, cus i am man!

VictorA6  : h'lo greylord and greysoul as well.

Ravensong : Scott, you're not responding to the conversation...thats the 
            whole idea of dialog...

Crag Hack : Ravensong, I don't I ever sinned.  However, I bet Scott (if he 
            knew what I've done) would think 

Crag Hack : I have

WALKER4   : congratulations

Ravensong : ....talk to us, not just monologue us to sleep....

VictorA6  : so, exactly what are you talking about guys?

Greylord  : Scott...you should pray to Jesus that He open your eyes...

ScottD32  : What is so bad Hack

Crag Hack : I think we'll down here to learn.  Whatever we do, we learn.  
            Even if it mean murder

Ravensong : Hello Victor, we're trying to discuss the universe as we know 
            it....

Unnefer   : Scott your jesus is not my jesus, cuz my jesus is me!

Greylord  : Maybe some day He will....

Ravensong : can you build us an example of reality to show off?

KlemClone : beats the hell outta me (which is GOOD from a Christian 
            perspective)

Crag Hack : The murderer is learning and so is the murdered person

ScottD32  : You can't save yourself

Unnefer   : good is relative to the individual, not the collective as in 
            christianity

VictorA6  : oh! well quarrel no further because I am..

Ravensong : ...can you save us Scott?

Greylord  : Did anyone here say they could?

Crag Hack : Why not?  Doesn't Jesus work through you?

ScottD32  : Jesus is reality!

Greysoul  : you are who ?

Ravensong : ...if you're selling salvation, we're not buying today thank 
            you....

ScottD32  : Jesus Saves

Unnefer   : no!

Crag Hack : Yeap, I said I can save everybody!

Unnefer   : lol at raven

Greylord  : Dutch Finski saves too...same bank as me.

Greysoul  : victor.......you are who ?

Ravensong : ....We've been thru that before scott, all we proved is we all 
            know lots of gods and verbs

VictorA6  : no, Jesus is love..

Crag Hack : I am the Messiah.  The Superhero.  Or The Quizak Satterack!

Ravensong : We have nothing to dislike about love Victor...

Unnefer   : the only jesus i see is destruction and restriction

ScottD32  : Hello Victor

Ravensong : ...threats of doom and gloom are not love.

ScottD32  : P.T.L.

VictorA6  : I am Vic from McAllen, TX..I just signed on last night.

KlemClone : Unnefer, your vision is obscured

Crag Hack : PTL?  Goodness!

VictorA6  : hi scott

Ravensong : Scott...thats a defunct network... try ABC or CBS or NBC

Unnefer   : praise man for he walks the earth and shall be king

Greylord  : Vic....welcome!

Greysoul  : scott.....p t l

KITAIYLA  : hi greysoul!!!!!

VictorA6  : threats what threats?..

Crag Hack : Hi Vic.  Wellcome to the Thursday night fights!

KITAIYLA  : are we STILL doing this god bit?

Greysoul  : hi kitaiyla

Ravensong : Vic...watch out, we shatter realities here....

Crag Hack : lol

Ravensong : by mistake some believe.....

Unnefer   : Praise The Lunatics

ScottD32  : Jesus preaches LOVE

VictorA6  : very enjoyable, crag hack.

KlemClone : A King is measured by the compassion and wisdom of his rule. We 
            admit we fail, need God's help!

WALKER4   : p t l go to hot sex talk

Unnefer   : hate!

Ravensong : Greetings Henry...welcome to the Grove of Avalon

Greysoul  : scott do you follow p t l ?

VictorA6  : thanx ravensong

ScottD32  : Hold on to Jesus Vic

Greylord  : Actually...there should be no quarrel here...any who work toward 
            good intention have a kinship.

VictorA6  : I do

ScottD32  : I follow Jesus

Crag Hack : Viva La Hate!

ScottD32  : Not man

Unnefer   : man is god we must "help" ourselves

VictorA6  : think of death as a pie in the face from God..

Crag Hack : agreed Greylord

Ravensong : Scott...you can't always follow, someday you must lead 
            yourself....

Crag Hack : Well said, Ravensong!

Unnefer   : good point raven!!

Unnefer   : !

Crag Hack : Well said, indeed!

ScottD32  : I tried that Raven

Ravensong : :)

ScottD32  :  It don't work

Ravensong : ...and what happened to change your way Scott

Unnefer   : and failed obviously...

Greysoul  : why are we fighting about this we all have our own belief on what 
            is right

VictorA6  : do you guys do this often

KlemClone : we see here (electronically) many mansions

Ravensong : Greetingsd Pine Grove....

VictorA6  : hi pine

PINE GROVE: HI GUYS

Unnefer   : right is only relavent to the.......etc...

ScottD32  : Jesus saved me from death

ALANPM    : hi pine grove

VictorA6  : h'lo greg

Ravensong : Scott...do you always give up so easily to failure to find 
            yourself a path?

Crag Hack : Greysoul, we're humans.  We love to fight.  (Go ahead, i dare ya. 
             Hit me.  Go on)  :)

VictorA6  : how so, scott?

Unnefer   : oh no born again??

KITAIYLA  : lol

GregH22   : hey vic

Greysoul  : :) crag

ScottD32  : Drugs

KlemClone : and when you die Scott, Jesus will come to take you on. If you 
            believe, IT WILL HAPPEN!

Ravensong : Greetings Greg, welcome to the Left side of Reality as you know 
            it....

Crag Hack : Oh, no, Not that old party line.  "Drugs"!

Greysoul  : lol raven

Greysoul  : :)

Ravensong : Drugs are a fault of your own, not of the worlds Scott

GregH22   : thank you

VictorA6  : just what does lol mean?

Ravensong : LOL = Lots of Laughs

ScottD32  : Right Raven

Unnefer   : jesus is right here next to me...boy is he...

Greysoul  : lol= laughing out loud

Ravensong : :)

Crag Hack : Drugs is man-made!

Greysoul  : :)

VictorA6  : thanx raven

Ravensong : Then Scott, why did you need someone else to lead you from your 
            own actions?

VictorA6  : drugs are evil materialized

KlemClone : Unnefer, I've heard he likes pizza, feed him pizza.

Greysoul  : both

Unnefer   : lol

GregH22   : hi wee

Weetah Wee: Hi

Ravensong : Victor, drugs abused are wrong, used correctly are medicine.

ScottD32  : I can't save myself

VictorA6  : hi wee

Crag Hack : Wait, Victor.  Lets not start another fight!

VictorA6  : true to an extent.

Unnefer   : scott your lost without yourself-given up the mind to the 
            collective

GregH22   : where you from wee

Ravensong : Why do you belive you have to have someone change your life for 
            you?

ScottD32  : Whome do you really believe Ravensong

Weetah Wee: From Ohio

KlemClone : Neither could Christ, he called upon his father for help. 
            Correctly, an example for us all.

GregH22   : what part

Unnefer   : boy jesus sure does like pizza

KITAIYLA  : lol

VictorA6  : someone doesn't change your life you change it yourself.

Crag Hack : lol

Unnefer   : well said!

KlemClone : trust me, he likes poker too, (but watch his sleeves...)

Ravensong : Good evening M'Lord Grey...thy Lady shjall be on after me...have 
            a pleasant sleep

VictorA6  : hi king

Unnefer   : lol

Ravensong : We must all pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps or we shall 
            not understnad

Ravensong : the good we can do in life, scott.

Unnefer   : oh jesus...no stop tickling me....no!

Weetah Wee: Gwydian sends his regards...couldn't be here tonight

Ravensong : Greetings newcomers...welcome back unto the Grove of Avalon

Unnefer   : bad jesus...bad jesus!...no supper for you!

Ravensong : Scott, you have to take responsibility for yourself....

Greysoul  : this is getting childish

ScottD32  : Actions don't give you eternal life Raven

KINGDUNK  : victora6 hello from corpus christi tx

VictorA6  : that's in bad taste unnefer!

KlemClone : I've yet to Authur (Ours), or even a random druid wandering 
            through

Unnefer   : well we are all children of the world!

VictorA6  : Hello to you king from McAllen!

Unnefer   : sorry vic

KlemClone : to see Authur, that is (parity hit)

Ravensong : Eternal life? Scott, I believe that there is no end nor begining 
            just a forever

VictorA6  : not really we are children of what we believe

VictorA6  : apology accepted

Unnefer   : yes

KINGDUNK  : what kind of machine are you using victora6

ScottD32  : There is 2 eternities

Ravensong : ...Klem...I live with a druid amoungst others....

Unnefer   : ok

ScottD32  : Heaven or hell

VictorA6  : 1000ex, king how bout you?

ScottD32  : You choose Raven

Ravensong : Greetings all newcomers...welcomer to the Grove, where religion 
            is the topic, evidently

Greysoul  : this convo is not for me :( i'll be bak later in the eve.

Unnefer   : Scott where are you going?

Greysoul  : see ya

KINGDUNK  : the commodore colt xt/clone

Ravensong : see you Greysoul, take care

ScottD32  : Heaven

KlemClone : Can you get me a bulk discount on a faeri ring (1 heelstone, 5 
            followers?)

VictorA6  : good computer, king?

Ravensong : Scott...I will make my own heaven or Hell...as shall you....

Unnefer   : where is heaven(isnt in the mind)

Ravensong : Drugs were your hell once....

Unnefer   : !

ScottD32  : Jesus saved me from hell

Ravensong : ....Working for others for mere coinage is mine from time to time

VictorA6  : well put raven

KINGDUNK  : excellent . does the job just need a HD 20-30 megs

Ravensong : Hell teaches you many things, as does Heaven.

VictorA6  : how did he save you scottt?

Unnefer   : how did you see him?

ScottD32  : Who will really save you Raven

VictorA6  : how's the climate in Chorpus

KINGDUNK  : gotta go victor!

Ravensong : Scott....my own knowledge and wisdom will save me if I need 
            saving....

Unnefer   : here here!

ScottD32  : By pulling me from the Pits Vic

VictorA6  : ok! well I'll see ya around..sleep tight(VIC)

Ravensong : You have to learn to be selfsufficient iun the game of life....

VictorA6  : I understand what he did but how is my question/

Ravensong : Goodnight Victor, I hope this didn't phase you too badly...its 
            been a rough night

ScottD32  : You can't save yourself

Ravensong : why?

Unnefer   : i already have scott!

KlemClone : no, Raven, you have to learn that you're NOT self sufficient, 
            even if you only depend on yoursef

VictorA6  : Oh! sorru I'm not leaving King is sorry if I confused you.

ScottD32  : It is by grace we are saved

Ravensong : Oh, glad you can stay Victor....

ScottD32  : not by works of our own

Ravensong : Grace? Describe this Grace....

Unnefer   : it is by knowledge that we may save ourselves!

Ravensong : Your words are stilted and don't explain enough

Ravensong : Scott

VictorA6  : we can save ourselves scott that is why we have a will..

ScottD32  : God's love for his believers

Unnefer   : !!!!true will

Ravensong : Scott, why would your benificent god create a race of sheep when 
            he already made sheep?

ScottD32  : Sorry vic 

KlemClone : Grace actually exists (I'm not being cynical), and there are 
            "concentrations" you can hit

VictorA6  : Raven don't rough'im up to badly..

Unnefer   : oh where klem

ScottD32  : He loves us

Ravensong : Scott...I said before, I believe and Know the power of love, and 
            Love doesn't

Unnefer   : i believe in myself so i am god scott

Ravensong : demand we become its slave

KlemClone : well, I ran smack dab into some a few years ago along the 
            Applachian Trail

Ravensong : Love simply is.

Unnefer   : :)

Unnefer   : !

Ravensong : Greetings Urshy!

VictorA6  : you believe in yourself buy!, you are mortal..

KlemClone : i'm not kidding, it was terrifying, and then ... (well you know, 
            better than sex)

Ravensong : Welcome back Greysoul...the battle of words rambles on....

ScottD32  : Nice talking to you all

Urshy     : Im leaving this is stupid

Unnefer   : ha ha klem!:)

VictorA6  : hi greysoul

ScottD32  : Jesus does love you

VictorA6  : fine be that way urshy

Greysoul  : raven   when does catlady m get on-line   haven't talked to her 
            in a long time :)

Ravensong : Ah, the words too tough for you scott?

Unnefer   : i doubt it

ScottD32  : And so do I

Ravensong : Catlady is taking a rest, since our bill was posted....

KlemClone : a most powerful experience, for me. I don't know if Scott speaks 
            of the same thing..

Unnefer   : OH NO!

Greysoul  : :)

Ravensong : Greetings Paramedic, welcome

Paramedic6: hello

ScottD32  : Gods word too tough for you Raven

Urshy     : ScottD32 I agree with you God Does love you

VictorA6  : hello paramedics

Greysoul  : tell her i said hi

Paramedic6: hello

Des2      : Des says Jesus is Lord!

Unnefer   : gods word is man's word

Ravensong : Scott...God hasn't said anything lately

Ravensong : (at least not yours)

Des2      : The Lord God omnipotent reighneth

VictorA6  : see..that is where you are wrong unnefer..

ScottD32  : Listen Raven with your heart

Unnefer   : scott who created your god...maybe MAN!

Ravensong : Des...not you too?

Unnefer   : !

Des2      : Raven...if you didn't hear God...you weren't listening

VictorA6  : wrong again unnefer

Ravensong : Scott...I have always followed my heart

ScottD32  : Hi Des P.T.L.

Des2      : There can be no design without a Designer

Greysoul  : scott...i went to 12 years of catholic school and god never said 
            anything new in the 12 years

Ravensong : Des, I have heard many gods...which one is yours?

VictorA6  : hello des

Des2      : Hi Scott...Hallelujah!

Unnefer   : oh? vic explain-i am only wrong if i agree with you!

KlemClone : if YHVH has all bets covered, why does he insist that we not 
            "bring false gods before him?"

ScottD32  : :)

Unnefer   : IHVH

Des2      : King of Kings...Lord of Lords....Yehweh...Jehovah God

Des2      : Hi Victor

KlemClone : he shouldn't care.. it shouldn't matter

Ravensong : oh, are you Jewish Des?

Unnefer   : TETRAGRAMMATON

ScottD32  : Amen Des

Des2      : To proteckt you Klem

Ravensong : Sorry...I thought you were like Scott a Christian

VictorA6  : well now i forgot what i was going to say

ScottD32  : He is

Des2      : Not the last time I checked, Raven

Ravensong : Then why are you refering to the God of the Jews?

VictorA6  : i'm Christian

Des2      : I am uncircumcised, however....:0

Unnefer   : christ is the devil today

KlemClone : I appreciate the thought ( if not the charm... where did that 
            stigmata come from?)

VictorA6  : how so, unnefer?

Des2      : The Jews ....Israel.....was a type of the Church, Raven

Ravensong : Paramedic...I fear you've walked into one of our Us vs them 
            religion things again....

Unnefer   : because i will it to be!

Des2      : The devil DOES parade around as an angel of light Unnefer

Des2      : guess he fooled you

Ravensong : Des, if you believe what you say then why are you worshippping 
            someone else's god?

VictorA6  : and who empowers you to stand on the altar

Unnefer   : yes his name is jesus-and you've been deceived!

ScottD32  : Right on

KlemClone : "I'd give up my halo for a horn, and the horn for a hat I once 
            had.."

Unnefer   : just kidding

Des2      : God belongs to all who will receive Him

Greysoul  : the devil is in all of us but most of us choose not to listen to 
            him

Unnefer   : or not...

ScottD32  : Wrong uni

Unnefer   : !?

Paramedic6: That's fine, I always enjoy watching people who don't have any 
            idea what their talking about de'

Unnefer   : the devil is a symbol for the false mind/ego

Ravensong : Okay Paramedic, I just wanted to say I was sorry for the 
            atmosphere...

Des2      : You have a right to be wrong Paramedic

Paramedic6: debate each other's ignorance. It makes me giggle>

JRM0646   : Des2 is exactly right Unnefer, the devil comes to steal, kill, 
            and destroy...but Jesus came to 

Ravensong : here, have some ale...    [(_)

JRM0646   : give us life and life more abundently

VictorA6  : allright let us hear the omnipotene truth speaking paramedic

Paramedic6: Thank you!

KlemClone : you missed it, para6, we solved all the world's problems 2 
            seconds before you logged on

Des2      : Amen to that JRM

Greysoul  : any one have a fresh pot ofd coffee ?

Unnefer   : jesus is for those who fear death

ScottD32  : P.T.L.JRMO

KlemClone : guess you'll just have to watch Nightline tomorrow night to get 
            the details

Ravensong : Devil? Describe this entity you want to talk about....

Des2      : Will the created say to the Creator, why have you made me thus?

Paramedic6: Well, the solution didn't last, try again.

VictorA6  : someone want a bite of my pizza.

Des2      : No way Unnefer....Jesus is for those who want abundant life!

Unnefer   : just a symbol-like jesus/osiris/buddha,atc...

Greysoul  : i need coffee !

VictorA6  : what religion do you follow raven

ScottD32  : Jesus is the way 

Des2      : The devil goes about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may 
            devour

Greysoul  : for you scott

VictorA6  : well take some ...shees!!!

Unnefer   : man is god !!!!!!

JRM0646   : What kind of background did Unnefer come from?

ScottD32  : you too

Des2      : for ALL who will believe

Ravensong : I, Victor, am a Pagan upon a self appointed path, I make my way 
            without crutches

VictorA6  : will you please cut that out unnefer

Des2      : If you died, cursing God....

Unnefer   : one where i wasnt programmed!!!!!!!!!!

Des2      : the last thing you would see, as you slipped into eternity

Paramedic6: I am a non-denominational monotheist

Greysoul  : how can you say what is right for me ....scott

KlemClone : i'm on the edge of my seat Des2

Unnefer   : vic sorry ok

Des2      : would be a loving God with His arms outstretched...

Des2      : saying I love you, I love you...

Ravensong : Des, we don't curse gods...it would be a truly futile thing to 
            do....

ScottD32  : Listen to Jesus

ScottD32  : Grey

Ravensong : For if a god is omnipotent then you can't hurt him with a 
            curse....

Des2      : You c urse him by ignoring Him, Raven

Paramedic6: I believe there probably is one God, but I don't try to tell It 
            what church it should go to. 

Ravensong : ...anmd if he isn't there's no reason to curse him, hes already a 
            failure....

Greysoul  : what is he saying ?  i can not hear anything

Des2      : Right, Raven....you can't hurt him, but the curser hurts 
            himself...

KlemClone : you didn't c urse him!

ScottD32  : Recieve Him

Ravensong : If to ignore someone is to curse them then I've cursed billions!

Unnefer   : deceive him

Ravensong : ...and so have you!

Des2      : There can be no plan without a Planner...

Greysoul  : like i said i went to 12 years of jesus talk ... s o s nothing 
            different

Des2      : I meant deny, not ignore

KlemClone : read James Glick's book on Chaos

Ravensong : Des...there is no plan save that which we make....

Des2      : Obviously you werent listening, Grey

JRM0646   : Grey what "jesus" talk did you goto?

Des2      : Who gave you the brain to make the plan Raven?

Unnefer   : Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law

VictorA6  : O my God, you brighten the darkness around me..

Unnefer   : Love is the law, love under will

Greysoul  : catholic schooling...jrm

ScottD32  : Jesus is the light

VictorA6  : follow it

Des2      : We're not preaching religion, we're telling you about a way of 
            life!

Ravensong : I have my own way of life thank you....

VictorA6  : if you want to anyway..

Des2      : Please know...not trying to force down your throats

Ravensong : Want to here about mine?

Des2      : Just discussing, I thought

Des2      : Be my guest, Raven

Greysoul  : i was listening but .... nothing was different ...just do good 
            and you will live for ever

VictorA6  : not that i am trying to impose this on anyone just making 
            conversation

Greysoul  : that is basically universal

Des2      : not true Grey

JRM0646   : Greysoul you need to visit a 'spirit-filled' church...then I 
            guarntee you will change your mind 

JRM0646   : ...about Jesus

ScottD32  : Not by works

Unnefer   : what makes you so certain your right des? faith?well..

Des2      : Jrm....tell it all

Ravensong : I am a Pagan Des, I believe that the Universe is a whole, created 
            by forces

Des2      : The Alpha

Des2      : and Omega

Ravensong : that we don't remember, buit which we will someday.

VictorA6  : that is not al;ways true jrm..

Des2      : Ah yes, Raven....the force of The Holy One

JRM0646   : Victor where are you from?

ScottD32  : God creates

KlemClone : After that, Grey, we'll go to Iran, they'll change your mind 
            too...

Unnefer   : he who knows does not speak-he who speaks does not know

Greysoul  : :)

VictorA6  : originally or now, jrm?

Greysoul  : klem

KlemClone : or at least your posture

JRM0646   : both

Des2      : Been there Klem....The ayatollah sez hello

Ravensong : The Multiverse we live in is many many universes connected by 
            many seperate realities

Des2      : He who seeks to know...must first learn to imagine and 
            deliberate...

Unnefer   : right on raven!

ScottD32  : WHAT RAVEN???

VictorA6  : originally from Dallas then I moved to Puerto Rico then Mexico 
            City and now McAllen texas

Des2      : the wish to know contains not always the faculty to acquire.

Greysoul  : why do you think we have to follow jesus to live for ever why not 
            just do good

Ravensong : ...Gods are the creation of the group mind that we all belong to, 
            just most of us don't

KlemClone : give him my best wishes for the afterlife; i intent to catch him 
            on the rebound and kick ass

Ravensong : know it for sure.

Des2      : It's in the Book Grey

Unnefer   : des you are stuck in one reality-try some others!

JRM0646   : Where are you spiritually? 

JRM0646   : How serious is Jesus to you?

Des2      : I've found it real Unnefer...

Des2      : I'm in the fourth dimension!

Greysoul  : your book not mine.....not budda's,not everonee

Ravensong : Ah, Des, I see you quickly ignore those who wish to talk of their 
            own way of life

VictorA6  : where God has placed me...under his command.

Ravensong : and beliefs....

Des2      : God's book Grey..

Unnefer   : oh the astral plane

Ravensong : It seems you are not as you preach....

Greysoul  : your god

Des2      : No, Raven...was trying to answer 2 others....go on

VictorA6  : the mortal life

KlemClone : actually, OOBE is fun!

Unnefer   : jesus WAS a great man(?) who is no dead!

JRM0646   : Do you talk with Jesus, and eat upon His Word more than anything 
            elso??

Greysoul  : now

JRM0646   : In other Words is Jesus FIRST??

Unnefer   : yes

VictorA6  : not dead waiting untill the time is right unnefer

Des2      : I respect your right to believe as you wish....just wanted to 
            share what has been

Unnefer   : now dead

Ravensong : Des...I'm sorry I jumped the gun in thinking you were ignoring 
            me...sorry

VictorA6  : not always although I should,jrm

Des2      : so real to me for 37 years

Unnefer   : oh vic? the apacolypse?

JRM0646   : What Church do you go to in McAllen?

VictorA6  : dead physically yes, not spiritually..

VictorA6  : maybe..maybe not?

Ravensong : Des...the Multiverse, like all other dimensions within it, is a 
            sealed globe,

Des2      : Most church members are too dogmatic

ScottD32  : Good Night all  P.T.L.

Greysoul  : no one is ever dead spirituall

Des2      : yes...

VictorA6  : Holy Spirit Catholic Curch

Unnefer   : yes i agree

KlemClone : Raven, you know better. It is not.

Ravensong : All that wa sin it from start is still there...no loss of energy 
            or matter

Des2      : and...

VictorA6  : in some aspects yes, unnefer

Greysoul  : so what make jesus god and not us

Paramedic6: Entropy?

KlemClone : all that light keep pouring through the holes in the crystal 
            sphere (I like Orion, myself)

Unnefer   : no amount of debaiting can prove anything-we already have our 
            convictions

Greysoul  : for we live forever and so does he

VictorA6  : Orion, nice choice my favorite as well..

Ravensong : Unnefer...how do I get them to understand?

VictorA6  : Good unnefer then why in the he-- do we continue babbling like 
            fools..

KlemClone : Imagine all those souls who have looked up at Orion, confident 
            that they knew their god..

Des2      : Facinating, Raven...perhaps I can explore your insight more at a 
            later time

Ravensong : ...or at least to stop bothering us?

Unnefer   : raven i dont know?

VictorA6  : you think as you will and that is that

Des2      : Didn't mean to be a bother...sorry

Ravensong : Des, if you're really interested, I'll send you a reading 
            list....

Des2      : please do

Ravensong : Its the others that are getting to me....

VictorA6  : this subject is getting stakle fast...

Ravensong : not you.

Des2      : DES: 6817 Cedar Ln., Dublin, CA 94568

Greysoul  : raven...can not get to understand if not listening

KlemClone : send me one too ( I collect late 20th century varient religious 
            mailings)

Ravensong : you're being more open minded then the others have.

VictorA6  : who are you talking to raven?

Des2      : That's the BIG problem with most church people....closed minds

KlemClone : not me, I'm sure

JRM0646   : AMEN--des

VictorA6  : speak for yourself des

Unnefer   : raven your right-i have been a bit close minded about all this

Des2      : He who is convinced against his will, remains unconvinced 
            still...Franklin

Ravensong : Well, I must turn in now...Greylady wished the comm again and the 
            night has been long

KlemClone : true word, Des2

Paramedic6: Raven: If they're bothering you, follow the example of the 
            porcipine (one of natures more inoffe

Paramedic6: inoffensice creatures)

Ravensong : ...Greysoul watch for her...she wants to talk again when shes 
            on....

Des2      : hope to see you all later...

VictorA6  : nice talking to ya raven see ya around huh?

Greysoul  : ok

Ravensong : Para...thanks...I'll write soon.

Greysoul  : but can't stay on long

Des2      : Victor...we cant BLAST 'em and expect em to believe

VictorA6  : i must leave to..Bon nui

Greysoul  : see ya raven

Paramedic6: please do, my files to follow also.

Des2      : f

KlemClone : enjoy the morning (EST, at least)

Des2      : a

Des2      : r

Des2      : e

Des2      : w

Des2      : e

Des2      : l

Des2      : l

Ravensong : Good night all        *)-----Ravensong-----(*