SECRETS OF THE L.A. RIOTS -- PART III
[Editor's note: Fred Celeni (pronounced suh-LAN-ee) worked as a
federal intelligence agent, he says, for the office of U.S.
Congressman John D. Dingell. Celeni was interviewed for public
access television in Los Angeles, and that interview was later
re-broadcast on Sherman Skolnick's television program,
"Broadsides," in Chicago. Following is my own abbreviated
transcript of Celeni's remarks. (Possible spelling errors exist
and are not noted.)]
-+- Hillary and the Meth Labs -+-
INTERVIEWER: Under what pretext were you, shall we say,
"suckered," into Little Rock?
FRED CELENI: The theory was we were going to be getting money
from the Glasgows that was going to go to Hillary Clinton. And
it concerned a methamphetamine operation. And the same
methamphetamine operation, the same people associated with it,
are directly related to a man by the name of David Hale, who is
now, supposedly, the government's star witness in this case
against McDougal and Hillary and Jim Guy Tucker.
INTERVIEWER: So you were going to set her up on some kind of a
FRED CELENI: No, just the opposite. What was happening was, we
were supposed to make her look like, kind of like, Nancy Reagan:
"Just say 'no' to drugs." Well, Hillary Clinton was going to
"reveal" this information about David Hale, and help the FBI and
the Marshalls arrest David Hale in a sting operation. The idea
was, was to stop David Hale.
You've got to remember what's important here. The day I got
arrested in Little Rock, an hour later I was standing in the
United States District Judge's court. (If I remember correctly,
his name was Forrester.) And I said, "Judge Forrester, I am an
officer of the federal government. I work for John Dingell, of
the Congressional Committee on Oversight Investigations. I have
complete immunity." I presented my immunity letter, the minute I
INTERVIEWER: How did the judge respond?
FRED CELENI: He told me, "You're not being held for this crime.
We're holding you as a parole violator." That's how they got
away with it.
INTERVIEWER: What do you think the purpose was, for them to
FRED CELENI: What had happened was, two days before, I had
called up Vince Foster. And I said, "Vince, why am I being told
to wind everything down?" He said, "Hey, basically the operation
is finished." He said, "We've got the election; the polls show
it. We're just wrapping things up." I said, "Well where is my
*quid pro quo*?" He said, "Well as soon as he's in the White
House, you're gonna get it." I said, "What am I gonna get?" He
said, "You're gonna get a pardon."
Well, Vince was correct: As soon as Clinton got in the White
House, I sure "got it," all right. But it wasn't a pardon. What
I got was an order, to Webster Hubbell, that said, "Fred Celeni
is to be kept incommunicado." When Prime Time Live, ABC News,
came to see me, they were not allowed in to see me. Based on
Hubbell's orders. When Dateline NBC came, they were not allowed
to see me. Based on Webster Hubbell's orders, as number 2 man at
the Justice Department.
INTERVIEWER: How do you know that the President ordered this?
FRED CELENI: It came out in a hearing, shortly before the trial,
where we went in and said, "Your honor, they're not allowing us
to talk to the media." And the judge said, "It's okay if Mr.
Hubbell wants him kept away from these channels, without direct
access, because Celeni can talk to them on the telephone. That's
not a denial of his First Amendment rights."
INTERVIEWER: Where were you in July of 1993? July the 19th, to
FRED CELENI: I was on trial in Little Rock, Arkansas.
INTERVIEWER: And you were housed where?
FRED CELENI: At the North Little Rock Police Jail, I guess they
INTERVIEWER: You got a call from Washington, DC, on the night of
July 19th. Tell us about it.
FRED CELENI: I was brought out of my jail cell, into the
Sergeant's office. And they closed the doors and the man said,
"Here," handed me a telephone, pressed a button, and he walked
out of the room. And I said, "Hello?" And a female voice said,
"This is Fred Celeni?" And I said, "Yes, it is." And she said,
"This is the signals operator. Will you hold please?" And I
said, "Yes, I will." And about 30 to 45 seconds went by, and Mr.
Foster came on the line.
-+- Vince Foster Gets Made Horizontal -+-
INTERVIEWER: And what did you talk about?
FRED CELENI: We basically talked about the fact that I had been
writing to him and I had made a couple of phone calls. And I
asked for documentation, and I asked if he'd be willing to come
and testify in my behalf.
INTERVIEWER: And what did he say?
FRED CELENI: He said he was going to send some documents.
We got into talking about a lot of things. And he told me, he
said, "You know, I'm worried." And I said, "Why is that?" We
got to talking about the lawyer I had (Gregory Bryant), and he
told me Gregory Bryant was called "The Snake." He said, "Did
'The Snake' try to find out who 'The Rabbi' is?" I said, "Yeah,
he's been trying to find out."
[Then we talked further, and Foster said,] "I was told
yesterday that I'll be killed if any of this comes out." He
didn't use the word "killed"; he said, "I was told that I'll be
made horizontal." I said, "Who told you this?" He said, "Webb
Hubbell took me out yesterday. Webb said to me, 'Let me tell
you, Vince. This Celeni situation: if you don't shut your
f**king mouth,' he said, 'Buddy Young will make sure you're
INTERVIEWER: And what happened to Vince Foster the next day?
FRED CELENI: The next day, I came into court. I had no idea
what was going on. And Gregory Bryant said to me, "The Rabbi is
But what got me was, he knew it at 9:30 in the morning.
INTERVIEWER: On the 20th?
FRED CELENI: On the 20th. Vince wasn't dead yet.
INTERVIEWER: So at 9:30 in the morning, on the 20th, your
attorney is saying, "The Rabbi is no more."
[...to be continued...]
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