GENE TATUM & TWO OTHERS -- JUNE 7, 1996
=======================================
 
My  transcription  of  a  conversation between Gene Tatum and two
others, identified here  as  "Andrew  Dunn"  and "Bob Irvin" (not
their real names.)  This is an abbreviated transcription.
 
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[...continued...]
 
BOB IRVIN:
What do you say  really  went  on  with  the  whole money deal in
Arkansas, with the cast of characters of  the  Lasaters,  Jackson
Stephens... Did you ever have any contact with him?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
I've  heard  conversations  at  meetings.  I know that one avenue
they were approaching on the money side was having to do with the
mortgage industry:  selling mortgages  to  Fannie Mae. They would
utilize the monies, clean the monies up, utilize it  as  mortgage
monies and sell them to the government.
 
One  of  the  banks  they  were  talking  about was a bank out of
Tennessee, but it was Japanese-owned.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
In '92 (going back to our  friend  from Texas):  Did it matter to
Bush or Clinton which one won?  Later in that campaign, Bush  was
almost  like  a quarterback throwing the game.  It didn't seem to
me that he wanted to win.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
If Bush maintained an  office  [of President], the timetable [for
New World Order, a.k.a.  "Global  Union"]  would  have  been  set
back, simply because of the media coverage of the President.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
He's a lot more free to get things done.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Though  actually  Clinton  was  the  brand  [brand name]; Clinton
guaranteed that everything went forward on schedule.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
Clinton was a "yes man" for years.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
I heard that he  was  enrolled  in  "the Company" [CIA] early on,
when he was at Oxford.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
That's what I  heard,  and  I  heard  it  from the horse's mouth.
"Skull and Bones" [Bush] inducted him early there.  {2}.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Let me ask you:  who is...  Are they household names, in terms of
the [hidden] hierarchy of this whole operation?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
I wouldn't say  "household."   I  would  say,  in  the  financial
community   certainly   they're  household  names.   And  in  the
international community.  Yes,  in  some  countries they would be
household names.  They would be the "Folgers of  America."   [CN:
not  meant  literally;  a  definite  Folgers  connection  is  not
necessarily indicated.]
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Right.   Did  you  ever  hear Lippo Group, out of Indonesia?  Did
that name ever come up?
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
Related to [Jackson] Stephens.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Stephens would obviously  be  a  character.  What other?  Goldman
Sachs.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
Lippo Group?
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Yeah.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
I've never heard of it.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
They paid Webb Hubbell $500,000 to keep his mouth shut.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Yeah.  He took a dive for them on this whole  Whitewater  affair.
Keeping a low profile. And he still only got 21 months. {3}.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
And you've got to understand  that  this Iran-Contra leg was only
one arm of what was going on worldwide.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
The Iraq-Contra was even bigger, I understand.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
And the Pacific Rim had quite a bit going too.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
Carlos Cardoen? Did you ever run across him?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
No.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
He was from Chile.  But he  came  up  and  had  meetings  in  the
States,  private little meetings.  I think one was with [then-CIA
Director] Gates in southern Florida.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Chilean arms dealer. [Cardoen]
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
He sold the cluster bombs to Saddam [Hussein].  Which we gave him
the technology for.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
That was the "Third World  shuffle"  you were talking about:  you
know, get stuff down to a friendly country where  we  don't  have
export restrictions. {4}.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
Related to the Cayman Islands and Barry Seal:  Coral Reinsurance,
Fuji Bank....
 
 
GENE TATUM:
World Fidelity Bank, down in Grenada.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
You never, I suppose, ran into Vince Foster?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
No.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
Supposedly he was working very closely with Jackson Stephens.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
I only know Stephens because of what I heard in the meetings.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
Who out there are there  who  could  come forward to support your
claims?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
There are many who could.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
But won't.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
That's a good analogy. Or can't.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
Maybe this Internet stuff might  be  able to produce some kind of
reunions.  Somebody to come out of the woodwork,  whether  it  be
anonymously  or  under  some  veil of protection, to provide some
support, substantiation. That's always a problem.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
The, to  use  a  loose  term,  New  World  Order  [a.k.a.  Global
Union]...  It's no surprise  that  21  companies  here  that  are
multi-billion dollar conglomerates control probably 80 percent of
the  media in terms of newspapers, periodicals, cable and network
television.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
The media is under their  control.   For years.  You have editors
-- senior editors -- who are former members of the CIA.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Let me go back for a moment to our friend in Texas there.   After
you  walked  [away  from Pegasus], for whatever reason they chose
not to follow through  on  that  [i.e., black ops against Perot].
And I assume, using the Ortega  model,  they  probably  gave  him
[Perot] some warning -- which is when he came out with the excuse
about dirty tricks and his daughter. Right?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
I don't know.  I know that after I walked, the warning was:  this
covers me and him, this tape. {5}.
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
But he did resign from that race.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
I don't know what he wanted to do.   Look  who  he  chose  for  a
[running mate].
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
Right. Exactly. [laughs]
 
Pegasus,  as  a  unit:   would you say that the personnel in your
unit was what?  Twelve,  twenty  guys?   Were there other arms of
Pegasus?  As an organization, has  it  got  500 people in it?  50
people?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
I would say about 80...
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
You were in a cell which...
 
 
GENE TATUM:
...in our cell.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
Did anyone in that cell have contacts with other cells?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
No. We never crossed cells. Meetings were held in separate areas.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
How was [Congressman] Henry Hyde involved in all of this?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
Henry Hyde provided the lines of credit at the banks  for  us  to
utilize.
 
 
BOB IRVIN:
And which banks were those?
 
 
GENE TATUM:
[Laughs] Depended on where you were!
 
 
ANDREW DUNN:
He  [Hyde] *is* the official paymaster of the CIA "black budget."
{6}.
 
 
GENE TATUM:
If we had something come up that was too short notice for  us  to
collect  the monies, we normally kept $25,000 *only* for Customs,
going into foreign countries.  It's amazing how easy it is to get
in and out of countries.
 
---------------------------<< Notes >>---------------------------
{2}  "Skull  and Bones" is a nickname for former-President George
Bush.  Bush was inducted into  a  secret Yale society, "Skull and
Bones," when a student at Yale.  Note also that Bill Clinton is a
Yale alumni.
 
{3}  Regarding Webb Hubbell, presumably he is ensconced in one of
the nicer "Club Fed" facilities.
 
{4} The "Third World shuffle":  For example, arms dealers want to
export arms to Iraq but export  restrictions  won't  allow  this.
But  export  restrictions  allow  export  of arms to Chile.  From
there, the arms could be sent on to Iraq.
 
{5} "I don't know.  I know that after I walked, the warning  was:
this  covers  me  and him, this tape."  Tatum says he has several
copies of a  videotape  which,  if  made public, would scandalize
powerful persons  amongst  the  ruling  clique.   He  warned  his
Pegasus superiors that if anything happened to him or his family,
that  videotape  would  surface.   The  "him"  referred  to above
apparently means that this  protection  is  also extended to Ross
Perot.
 
{6} CIA's "black budget" refers to money available to that agency
for which public  accounting  records  are not available;  a.k.a.
"hidden budget."